# Keir Starmer tries to lead the UK **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 6, 2024, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805 "2024-07-06T06:46:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2025, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/241 "2025-01-10T18:28:13Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > … it is important to note that Musk, Farage et al are not raising this issue because they are appalled by any and all child abuse. They are raising it because it allows them to demonise British Asians and Muslims… …and to bash a Labour government. ---
**Author:** ![Ash\_trav511](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@Ash\_trav511](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ash_trav511)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/242 "2025-01-12T15:14:02Z")
> **[Labour MP joins calls for national inquiry into grooming gangs](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/11/labour-mp-joins-calls-for-national-inquiry-into-grooming-gangs)** > > Dan Carden says government must heed calls for justice and show ‘whose side it on’ > **[Andy Burnham joins calls for ‘limited’ national inquiry into sexual abuse gangs](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jan/10/andy-burnham-calls-limited-national-inquiry-sexual-abuse-gangs)** > > Greater Manchester mayor says scope of inquiry he commissioned in Oldham did not have same legal powers Looks like a few Labour voices are now talking in terms of “limited national inquiry” and immediate/strict implementation of the recommendations of the previous inquiry commissions. Dan Carden… “The outcome must include acknowledging the racial and ethnic hatred of this mass sexual violence. This is not an obsession of the far right. I am speaking out because over the decades there have been far too few Labour voices expressing clear disgust and outrage at these heinous crimes, their cover-up and the lack of action.” ---
**Author:** ![Bbbb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@Bbbb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bbbb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/243 "2025-01-13T02:37:51Z")
The police that enabled the cover up of grooming gangs were doing so because the cops were also grooming kids in rotherham. It was never just only about ‘asian grooming gangs’ but the cops that wanted to cover up their own crimes. > **[Two former Rotherham police officers arrested over child sexual abuse](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/18/two-former-rotherham-police-officers-arrested-over-child-sexual-abuse)** > > Offences alleged to have taken place in 1990s while ex-constables, now in their 50s and 60s, were on duty One victim went to the police and while she was in the station, recieved a cell phone message saying her abusers knew where she was, had her sister and was told ‘the balls in your court’ Cops just cried about being worried about racism to cover up their crimes and incompetence ---
**Author:** ![Bbbb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@Bbbb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bbbb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/244 "2025-01-13T02:41:40Z")
> **[Revealed - Rotherham cops linked to child sexual abuse scandal - Socialist...](https://socialistworker.co.uk/in-depth/revealed-rotherham-cops-linked-to-child-sexual-abuse-scandal/)** > > We are told that the police failed to investigate child abuse in Rotherham because of ‘political correctness’. But here a victim of child sexual exploitation, a lawyer and an abuse expert tell Sadie Robinson about the links between abusers and the... Its old news even ---
**Author:** ![Ash\_trav511](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@Ash\_trav511](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ash_trav511)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/245 "2025-01-13T16:47:33Z")
> Is this true ? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/246 "2025-02-05T16:23:21Z")
Recent polling data: > **[Voting intention: Lab 24%, Ref 25%, Con 21% (2-3 Feb 2025) | YouGov](https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51511-voting-intention-lab-24-ref-25-con-21-2-3-feb-2025)** > > Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention figures Such massive changes from the last election. The British seem so fickle. Although I expected the Starmer government to move much more aggressively on increasing spending on the NHS, social welfare and other domestic programs while increasing taxes on the rich. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/247 "2025-02-05T17:45:13Z")
One of the more interesting things about the huge Labour majority in the last election is that Labour’s vote share didn’t actually change much. Instead, the Con vote collapsed and went to Reform and Lib Dem. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/248 "2025-02-05T18:18:49Z")
I thought I had some idea of UK politics until I saw that poll. I could tell you generally the policies of Labour, the lib dems, the tories, and UKIP… but who the hell are the Reform party? ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/249 "2025-02-05T18:20:06Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > , and UKIP UKIP? How are the Whig party doing in the US at the moment? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/250 "2025-02-05T18:21:23Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > but who the hell are the Reform party? [![](https://i.imgflip.com/6r0c5z.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/6r0c5z.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/251 "2025-02-05T18:23:55Z")
All dead, I imagine. Unlike UKIP, which was on the rise less than 10 years ago. A brief search for Reform seems to indicate they’re basically UKIP rebranded. Is that fair? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/252 "2025-02-05T20:18:23Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > A brief search for Reform seems to indicate they’re basically UKIP rebranded. Is that fair? Yes. The latest iteration of the Nigel Farage fan club and ego trip (until he falls out with them as he has with all the rest). Positioned on the populist right, and therefore plagued from time to time by supporters who come out with rather more bluntly prejudiced remarks than Farage himself would like. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/253 "2025-02-05T20:23:12Z")
> [@UK General Election {2024-07-04}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uk-general-election-2024-07-04/1001932/181): > > Here’s the scary part, and I speak from experience, the center - right is about to be replaced by a milquetoast center - left, if the new government doesn’t work, it may very well be replaced by the extreme - right. > [@Keir Starmer tries to lead the UK](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/149): > > My inner pessimist after reading this: Labour will be perceived as a failure whatever they do and the next government will be basically Nazis. I hope my inner pessimist is wrong but he’s being depressingly right lately. Damn you, inner pessimist! ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/254 "2025-02-18T14:52:36Z")
Starmer finds himself faced with a challenge that nobody could have foreseen except by paying attention: America is now the enemy of the free world. The most relevant manifestation of this for the UK is the situation in Europe. Not only is the US betraying Ukraine and nakedly siding with Russia in its sham peace talks, it is also unilaterally dismantling NATO by abandoning the notion of mutual defense. This is causing big problems for Europe which frankly are in part of their own making - the threat of Russia and the decreasing interest of the US in the European theatre should have had us increasing defence spending at least a decade ago. But the rapidity with which America has torn up its alliances means that some very quick changes are going to be due if Ukrainian and European security are going to be upheld. Starmer has already committed to UK troops serving as peacekeepers to uphold a ceasefire/peace agreement if one emerges, while also saying - alongside European leaders - that no deal can be made about Ukraine without Ukraine. And he had already committed to increasing defence spending by 0.2% of GDP, although it seems certain this won’t be enough for the new world we find ourselves in. The problem is that this money has to come from somewhere. For electoral but not fiscal reasons, Starmer pledged no increases on the “big three” taxes of income tax, value added tax and national insurance contributions (essentially another income tax). If he holds to this, the money for the military will come out other budgets - education, health, transport, justice etc. These budgets are already threadbare, public services are visibly creaking and unfit for purpose, all due to decades of under investment. It seems incredible that Starmer and his Chancellor Rachel Reeves won’t have to raise taxes, but currently this is the path they are on. Already there are leaked tales of government departments being told of the huge real terms cuts they wil have to make to shore up the armed forces. Given that Starmer’s pitch was all about getting Britain working again, gutting investment in this project in year 1 feels like the first step towards losing an election in year 5 to an opponent asking if this is what people voted for. Given that Starmer also seems to be banking that taking a hard line on immigration will steal the thunder of the far right parties instead of - as has happened literally every time its been tried, including by the last government - basically telling the electorate “they’re right, don’t vote for them” then Frodo’s inner pessimist is on track to tick off one more prediction. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/255 "2025-02-18T15:01:44Z")
A couple of points that got lost in that screed: Starmer’s response re. Ukraine/the collapse of NATO is good! There seems to be clear leadership coming from Europe as well, it’s just more of a scramble than it ought to be. But it’s not clear how the foreign policy is going to interact with the domestic policy. The collapse of NATO/struggles of European military are not just about spending levels: because of NATO, European forces are designed to work in concert with US Armed Forces which were always planned by the US to be the vast majority of personnel/equipment/capability - it’s not just that European forces are now smaller than NATO forces would be, it’s that there are quite important bits missing. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2025, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/256 "2025-02-18T21:02:45Z")
That was why we didn’t build aircraft carriers in the 1960s to replace the ageing wartime hulls - ‘we will never operate outside the NATO area again, the Americans will be providing all the air cover, let them pay for it’ ---
**Author:** ![FurloeRoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@FurloeRoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FurloeRoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/257 "2025-02-19T01:09:49Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > For electoral but not fiscal reasons […] LOL, I love this. I feel we’re in a strange time where a Conservative government greatly increases tax and spending, followed by a Labour government that ends up cutting spending to the bone, apart from defence. What’s the phrase, “events, my dear boy, events.” ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2025, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/258 "2025-02-19T12:08:39Z")
Yes, with the caveat that the Conservative pandemic-driven increases in spending under Johnson/Sunak were from a baseline of severe cuts by earlier iterations of the Conservatives. But - I don’t think Starmer can get away with cutting “butter” to spend on “guns”. He promised no tax rises - he also promised a considerable improvement in public services. And some of that can be done by e.g. ending doctors and train drivers strikes in a fairly straightforward way, but there’s no route out of social care shortfalls or prison overcrowding that doesn’t involve spending money. In some ways, this should be seen as an opportunity - events have transpired, we didn’t predict this kind of calamity, so sadly we have to undo Hunt’s NIC cuts and put a penny on income tax (or whatever) - it’s not what we wanted but it’s the only way to secure peace. Do it now and in four years, all being well, people have adjusted to the tax increase, granny can get out of hospital inside a month and there are good jobs making shells and drones for Ukraine. Or… let everything keep going to shit and see how grateful people are that they’re not being taxed while their schools fall down. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/259 "2025-02-21T20:00:24Z")
So Keir Starmer is going to meet Trump next week; this seems like it will go one of three ways: **1. A Serious Falling Out** - Starmer disagrees with something Trump says or mistakenly tries to appeal to Trump’s deceased conscience, eye contact is broken and never resumed; Before Starmer is even on the plane home, Trump starts telling the press and tweeting that Starmer is ‘Nasty’, not the right person for the job, suggests a regime change or annexation of the UK. **2. Big NothingBurger** - Somehow they meet and talk, without ever touching on any important topic and they pose for handshake photos and then nothing much changes, for now. This seems less likely than option 1. **3. Starmer Rolls Over** - and agrees with Trump that Zelenskyy is a very bad man, very bad, and that Gaza needs to have a genocide, very good genocide. Very Nice. Everyone thinks it’s the best, and so on. This doesn’t seem very likely at all. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2025, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805/260 "2025-02-21T21:15:44Z")
The U.S. and U.K. have a **special relationship**! Starmer isn’t going to want to damage this so he will choose the **Big NothingBurger**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keir-starmer-tries-to-lead-the-uk/1003805.md?page=14)