# (Ken Burns) Country Music Documentary **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 16, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317 "2019-09-16T15:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/121 "2019-09-27T17:44:31Z")
**Dinsdale** : maybe you should watch the rest of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/122 "2019-09-27T18:48:15Z")
1. That Garth Brooks story is awesome. 2. Burns style has its weaknesses, and musical genres might mean different things to different people. But he does cover the distinctions between bluegrass, folk, hillbilly, western, swing and other labels to some degree. Reasonable people might differ in how “country” artists like The Eagles or Taylor Swift are because they straddle boundaries. Although these boundaries are nebulous, they also change over time. How many untraditional country singers were only embraced by Nashville once they had achieved some success elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/123 "2019-09-27T19:10:05Z")
Watch the whole thing. KB ties is up nicely. There’s no accounting for taste. You like what you like. Labelling it is not imperative to the enjoyment of a thing. The first episode was the hardest for me to watch, as well. It gets easier. The first ep will make more sense toward the end. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/124 "2019-09-27T19:17:06Z")
Still wondering why A.P. Carter isn’t treated as a ripoff artist. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/125 "2019-09-27T19:24:06Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m a little late to the game, as I just started the 1st ep last night. > > First off - I’ve never been a fan of the Ken Burns schtick. I’ve often found that he takes a topic I expect to be interested in, and then bores the shit out of me with ponderous narration, slow pans of still photos, and over-reliance on a limited number of commentators. This seems to hit all of the same elements, but I expect to stick with it, mainly because I’m such a fan of the music that will be discussed. > > But only part of the way through the first episode, I’m already having difficulty with the purported topic. What KB is calling country music sure includes a heckuva lot of music I never had heard called country. > > A little background - I play in quite a few acoustic jam sessions and in a string band. I acknowledge how difficult it can be to “categorize” various performers/music. Heck, when I was in college, were Elvis Costello or the Pretenders punk? New wave? Rock and roll? Does it matter? It wasn’t until I attended a banjo camp that I appreciated the CLEAR distinctions between bluegrass and oldtime music. But here’s the rub - NONE of the bluegrass or oldtime pickers at that camp would’ve said they were playing “country” music. > [@ftg](#): > > **Dinsdale** : maybe you should watch the rest of it. What **ftg** said. Bluegrass wouldn’t be bluegrass without Bill Monroe, who started as a country artist. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/126 "2019-09-27T19:27:40Z")
Oh, I intend to watch it all. Was just caught up binging something else at the time. The music he describes is entirely within my eclectic wheelhouse. From what I see, he spends little time on the “big hat” country I like least. Actually, old time - as in the first ep - is probably my favorite. And it gets the least play. Not at all hard to get a ton of info on Johnny Cash, Hank, Merle, etc… But from what I’ve read here and elsewhere, he features Bob Wills, Bill Monroe, The Everly Brothers … All I’m saying is that for someone to call those folk “country” requires casting a mighty wide net. Seriously - would any of you describe what Bill Monroe played as country music? Or maybe I’m betraying sentiments too close to Bob, who plays “both kinds” at his Country Bunker! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/127 "2019-09-27T19:34:39Z")
OK, I look forward to seeing what they say about Bill and Charlie, as opposed to the Bluegrass Boys. (All honesty - my initial reaction likely reflects my dislike for KB’s style. Never understood the acclaim. But I’ll gratefully lap up whatever is offered addressing my favorite music. And the “labelling” thing is something that comes up surprisingly often. I agree. Play/listen to what you like. But when you go and PUT a label on something, there oughta be a reason. And unless Wynton is discussing Ring of Fire, he should put down that damned trumpet! ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/128 "2019-09-27T19:38:06Z")
[“New River Train” - Bill with his brother Charlie, 1936](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyWMFjly24o) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/129 "2019-09-27T19:42:47Z")
I think the Everly Brothers were NOT featured. The Cash/Carter story is strung all the way through. As well as Bill Monroe. Bob Wills gets a short spotlight. IMO bluegrass is country. The most country. Being that’s where it all began. Add gospel, celtic and homespun fiddle and mandolin, black music and it all equals ‘country’ They delve into how the music was listed/ labelled in Billboard magazine. Race music, Country/Western, Countrypolitan, Outlaw, Americana. It all ties up in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/130 "2019-09-27T19:45:11Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > They delve into how the music was listed/ labelled in Billboard magazine. Race music, Country/Western, Countrypolitan, Outlaw, Americana. It all ties up in the end. Don’t forget Hillbilly! ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/131 "2019-09-27T19:53:17Z")
My biggest problem with series as a whole was the missing parts. Groups like Shenandoah, Exile, the Dixie Chicks, the Statlers, the Oakridge boys, were shorted. As duos you get The Judds, a bit about Tammy and George Jones, Loretta and Conway. There are many duos that were always duos that got passed over. And the new country bad guys, Eric Church and Chris Stapleton weren’t even mentioned. And 100s of Americana singers that are very good. We need another 6 episodes IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/132 "2019-09-27T20:06:07Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Don’t forget Hillbilly! So true. And of course there was not enough Merle Haggard. 🙂 I lurves me some ‘Hag!!’ ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/133 "2019-09-27T20:28:03Z")
I used to have relatives in the hills around Louisville, Kentucky. Haven’t seen any of 'em in 40 years but I must’ve heard some of their music back then. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/134 "2019-09-27T20:28:59Z")
I finished watching it last night. I liked this series a lot better than Burns’ Jazz documentary. It’s possible that my problems with Jazz stem from knowing too much about the subject. But I think Country Music did a better job of covering the music itself. It was especially good at describing the differences in genres and styles, and in showing the tug of war between tradition and innovation. The Jazz series was influenced too much by Wynton Marsalis (who’s a blowhard), and Stanley Crouch (who’s both a blowhard and a bigot). I didn’t see any similar problem in Country Music. None of the interviewees took over the show with any narrow viewpoint, and we were treated to Marsalis’ lame scatting only once that I remember. As for A.P. Carter being a thief: yes, he was. This kind of thing was common back then. Record company executives would give themselves songwriting credit for pieces that they published. Sometimes they were nice enough to only claim co-writing credit, but often they’d claim it all for themselves. Performers would steal from each other shamelessly, recording existing copyrighted material with minimal changes other than the title (which they’d change to make the copying harder to trace). ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/135 "2019-09-27T20:30:05Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > My biggest problem with series as a whole was the missing parts. Groups like Shenandoah, Exile, the Dixie Chicks, the Statlers, the Oakridge boys, were shorted. > As duos you get The Judds, a bit about Tammy and George Jones, Loretta and Conway. There are many duos that were always duos that got passed over. And the new country bad guys, Eric Church and Chris Stapleton weren’t even mentioned. And 100s of Americana singers that are very good. > We need another 6 episodes IMO. Well, that’s sorta my observation. I would EXPECT several of the above to be mentioned in 16 hrs of country music. Although he seems to have petered out some time after the 90s. My choice woulda been to include more cowpunk or psychobilly than I see suggested. Now, if they presented the series as “The roots of country music”, or “American music that is not blues or jazz”, I’d have less disagreement. Oh well. Like I said, I’ll keep watching. Just thought the scope curious. And the narration boring. And yes, I’m quite familiar w/ Bill and Charlie’s oeuvre, and wouldn’t be surprised if someone calls New River Train tomorrow morning. A fun tune to drive on bass… ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/136 "2019-09-27T20:47:13Z")
What A.P. carter was doing was called ‘Song collecting’. He was trying to cash in on copyright money. It was widespread. When radio and recording became easier to do folks went crazy trying to get things recorded first. There was bound to be things stolen during that time. But, if ol’ Uncle Joe in the backwoods with no electricity sang it for them how was he gonna ever know? He had no radio and was old. No one to bring a lawsuit about copyrights. I imagine people who collected songs justified by saying they were preserving the music for prosterity. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/137 "2019-09-27T20:48:07Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Now, if they presented the series as “The roots of country music”, or “American music that is not blues or jazz”, I’d have less disagreement. It’s basically a list of everyone who ever performed on the Opry and associated “barn dance” programs. Yes, even the Everlys were on stage at the Opry in the late Fifties. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/138 "2019-09-27T20:53:42Z")
Elvis was on the Opry. Not well recieved. He did better at the Louisiana Hayride. _Dinsdale_, watch for the Elvis, Johnny Cash connection. I won’t spoiler it for you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/139 "2019-09-27T20:57:23Z")
Speaking of the Hayride, I would have like to seen Johnny Horton. Pretty sure all he got was one namedrop. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317/140 "2019-09-27T21:00:34Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > The music he describes is entirely within my eclectic wheelhouse. From what I see, he spends little time on the “big hat” country I like least. It’s a documentary in roughly chronological order that spans seven decades. > [@](#): > > Seriously - would any of you describe what Bill Monroe played as country music? Seriously - I wouldn’t put Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin in one group either. But if I were doing a 16-hour documentary on the evolution of African-American music from the days of slavery to modern times, I’d sure as hell include both Motown and Memphis. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > And the new country bad guys, Eric Church and Chris Stapleton weren’t even mentioned. Maybe that’s because the program ends with the deaths of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash in 2003. Eric Church’s career didn’t even start until 2005 and Stapleton wasn’t a visible presence until 2007. Geez, people. If you want to drill down that far, take a 400-level college course in music history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-burns-country-music-documentary/840317.md?page=8)