To be fair, it apparently had multiple meanings…The term Việt cộng appeared in Saigon newspapers beginning in 1956. It is a contraction of Việt Nam Cộng-sản (Vietnamese communist), or alternatively Việt gian cộng sản (“Communist Traitor to Vietnam”).
They said Ho Chi Min. Called the people Viet Mein (msp)…it meant ‘the people’…I remember thinking in the late 60s and 70s…that he was s brutal savage…apparently that wasn’t so…at first any way…the French had so much to do with people being unhappy with their situation…I can’t believe I never heard that back during the war…There was al
ot of war talk in my house…because My daddy was a Marine…and my brother were the drafting age…Daddy made them both join the corps before they were drafted.tho’…Both lived thru the war.
My first reaction to those inserts was the same - “That seems a little odd, to jump to an American talking about 1967 when we were just examining the French response to the Viet Minh” - but I eventually gathered how the specific 1960s stories directly related to what had been going on historically. I thought Burns did a great job with that.
It was maddening to hear diplomats and military figures from Indochina in the 1920s or 40s or 50s say the exact same things we heard once we realized we couldn’t win the war in the 1970s. All the signs were there, nobody wanted to read them.
Why? His cash is green. Perhaps you can increase (or begin) your contributing to PBS to make his not needed.
I often forget that my father was in the war. He was a career Navy guy, and was actually stationed in Viet Nam for a full year, but it was really early in the war (1962), so not much actual fighting was going on for the US. Although we always moved around wherever he was stationed, for that year we went and lived with my grandfather. I was in 2nd grade at the time, so I don’t remember a whole lot about it and my dad never talked about it either. I think it was pretty routine for an overseas stationing. I think he saw more “action” in the Korean War, but that was before I was born. My uncle, who was married to my dad’s younger sister, was in it during the real part of the war. He was evacuating wounded out of the firing zones.
Pretty much sums it up right there.
I still have such vivid memories of the late-1980s PBS documentary (directed by Stanley something? I was just a teenager), it feels too soon to me for another one. But apparently it is time – that’s cool.
ETA – Stanley Kernow, and it was 1983! I was thirteen. Hard to believe it’s been that long.
Very interesting show. Learning a lot. I was a few years too young to worry about having to go as it turned out. Learning about the French involvement before the US went in was eye opening. I watched the Burns films on the Civil and Second World War and this one seems to be of equal quality.
Very good tonight…I just can’t believe all the work by volunteers and military personnel that was done…all for naught, or so it seems. The people wanted to be heard and the west just didn’t get it…Not for lack of trying IMO. Then of course the communist came sweeping in…so sad. It’s no telling what that country could’ve been. I am not sure how it is there now…I assume like other communist countries.
I felt the foreshadowing that Burns did in the first episode, when he would make a point to how the past would be replayed and replayed, was really powerful.
Yeah, the episode was even titled Déjà Vu, and I was discussing the episode with my wife before it sunk in.
I had known about the history of the French in Vietnam, but was surprised to learn the name of the Bình Xuyên and through reading outside of the show how the French used that paramilitary/gang against their adversaries.
Though, my “wow, I didn’t know that!” moment came tonight. I didn’t know how much of a complete bastard Diệm and his family were. I was always a bit mystified as to why the coup happened. Tonight’s episode made that pretty damn clear.
ThelmaLou they also covered Kennedy’s contribution tonight. It ended with LBJ’s ascension. Much like LBJ, he wanted to end our entanglement, but couldn’t see how to do that while still appearing to be fighting and wining against Communism. In that political climate and state of world affairs, there aren’t any magic bullets. Kennedy felt that he was cooked if he faltered in support of the South Vietnamese government, LBJ felt he was cooked if he lost the war he (kind of) inherited. It looks like the same side of the coin to me for those two. I’d give Nixon the same leeway if he didn’t pretend to have a plan to end it, while planning to extend it.
Just started watching last night. I surfed across it, stayed for < 60 seconds and decided I wasn’t going anywhere… literally captivated by the show. My dad fought over there and talked about it often. However, I was a ~young kid and didn’t have any interest at the time. I still don’t have a ton of an interest in my (late) father’s perspective because I shy away from tales of violence. But as an older man, I’m very curious about the history, PR and politics.
I’m learning a lot. I knew practically nothing about what was presented tonight.
For me, the most moving part of the episode occurred when they played a tape of JFK discussing how he felt about the coup. I found it horrifying and comforting at the same time. I was comforted by the fact that he’d documented the USA’s involvement. I was horrified with his affirmation of our *support *in removing Diệm. I was again comforted by the remorse JFK shared on the tape.
Another point of enlightenment was one of the enlisted Americans commenting that “Ours may have been the last generation to think their government would never lie to them.”
I’m looking forward to watching more, though it’s going to be a visual, intellectual and temporal commitment.
I’m sure it’s no accident, but the eery similarity between what our “leaders” were telling us in 1963 and what we heard in 2004 and even today was shockingly brutal. There was even a mention of “In just 6 more months, we’ll have won and be out of here”. I’m no neophyte to this, and I know the whole things was highly politicized, but it’s still very disheartening to here it again.
I was looking up John Paul Vann online last night, and came across an interview with Neil Sheehan, where Sheehan quoted him as talking to a general, where the general told him “I think we’ll probably have all of this rapped up and out of here in six months,” and Vann replied, “I’m more optimistic, General, I don’t think we’ll be kicked out for at least seven or eight months.”
David Koch donates a LOT to charities, including PBS. It’s not that he’s philanthropic, just that he likes the tax write-off. The book Dark Money covers it very well.
But back to the series. We watched the first episode last night and found it historically interesting. I felt more apprehensive than I thought I would. I was a Navy Seabee in that shitfest, stationed on a Marine base. Technically a REMF, but we took regular incoming rocket fire and I saw five of my cohorts medivaced with multiple shrapnel injuries. I’m really not sure what my reaction will be to subsequent episodes, as I don’t think many escape a war zone without some sort of mental trauma.
I’ve only seen the first episode but like many others upthread it was incredibly informative. I did shout many expletives out loud during the episode, because knowing what comes down the road made some of the critical decisions seem even more egregious than they actually were.
I wish they had explained why the French invaded Da Nang in 1858. I had always assumed the French presence there built up in a similar manner to the British presence in India. Nope. I mean, yes, there was significant trade throughout the 18th Century, but apparently the Da Nang invasion was ordered by Napoleon III to prevent Catholic missionaries from being expelled.
The other interesting thing to me is how all-consuming the fear and perceived threat of Communism was. I was born in 1967, so by the time I had any awareness of world politics the Cold War was entering its final stages. To me, the zeitgeist was less focused on Communism as a threat, and more focused on the Soviet Union as the predominant threat to the US. I guess having the two largest nations in Asia fall under the sway of Communism would certainly have been alarming, but some of the figures in the documentary sounded as if they honestly thought the ideology was just going to sweep over the entire world if unchecked in Asia. It’s a kind of paranoia I find it difficult to wrap my head around.
Oddly enough, I’m also finishing the first season of Narcos, and the way the CIA is so focused on the Communist threat in Colombia in that show seemed almost comical to me. Now I can see it as the remnants of this same entrenched terror that started after WWII.
I’ll definitely be watching every episode of this series. Viet Nam is such a fundamental component of the American psyche that I wish we had more thoroughly and openly dealt with the after-effects long ago. I think our collective repression of the deep wounds that war caused us all has allowed a kind of sepsis to sink into our society. It is not at all difficult to trace so many of our societal ills directly back to the injuries caused by our engagement over there.
My opinion of JFK sure took a nosedive in the second episode. He was recorded telling someone that pulling out of Vietnam was not an option because it would harm his chances for reelection. What about the chances for a life for a million and a half people, motherfucker? Fucking politicians.
I think I read that he’s a science geek, which is why his name appears before many (most?) of the PBS shows I watch. I can’t say it disappoints me to see it, but the disconnect (uber rightwing bazillionaire supporting PBS programming) is a bit jarring.
Every episode so far has been extremely informative and eye opening. I had no idea how bad the South Vietnamese leadership was. One question I have, and it may have been covered (and I missed it), is whether there was protest in France of French involvement in SV. Were there protests there? If so, every aspect of America’s involvement was foreshadowed if we had studied what happened with the French.
I will certainly be watching the rest of the series.