# Ken Ham blames "Ark Encounter" failure on atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575 "2017-06-21T23:28:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/141 "2017-06-27T14:06:52Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I agree 10,000%. > > I wonder if local people are willing to work there, or if he has to import employees, and have also heard that the “docents” who are ostensibly there to answer questions are also under orders to chastise, or even escort out, anyone who ridicules or speaks negatively of the exhibits. 😕 To work there you must sign a pledge that you are a biblical literalist Young-Earth Creationist. I think there might be something in there about “traditional family values”, too. Basicly, for tax break purposes they claim to be a secular business, and for employment purposes claim to be a ministry (so that there can be a religious test for employment) and the fools in Kentucky let them get away with that. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/142 "2017-06-28T13:26:08Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > "No political/religious jabs in breaking news threads in MPSIMS > This is not a new rule but rather codifies the existing informal guidelines. > > MPSIMS threads are often started to call attention to breaking news stories. Many posters value these threads because they offer new information and multiple cites about the event in one place. Often the information is rapidly changing and these threads can move fast. One of the advantages of the SDMB is that with many posters from around the world we often have a poster local to the situation or even involved who can give unique insights. > > Unfortunately, since these types of threads commonly involve hot-button issues, they often fall prey to hijacks and rants about political, religious or other emotionally charged subjects. MPSIMS is not the place for such comments, which detract from the usefulness of breaking-news threads. If you wish to use a current event as a springboard for a commentary about a hot-button issue, please post it in Great Debates or the Pit. You may post a link to your GD or Pit post in MPSIMS, but don’t use that as an excuse to rehash your argument. > > Posters starting threads about breaking news stories may wish to identify them with “breaking news” or similar in the title. However, that’s not required. > > All posters are reminded to be considerate of other users and continue to observe the above rule. Any violation will be strictly moderated." > > Hmmm… I can see no other way to look at this other than as an attempt to junior mod. Cut it out. If you see a possible violation report it. Since this thread doesn’t fall under the breaking news category it’s a bad attempt at junior modding as well. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/143 "2017-06-28T14:01:08Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > To work there you must sign a pledge that you are a biblical literalist Young-Earth Creationist. I think there might be something in there about “traditional family values”, too. Basicly, for tax break purposes they claim to be a secular business, and for employment purposes claim to be a ministry (so that there can be a religious test for employment) and the fools in Kentucky let them get away with that. Here we go–to work there, you must sign a document asserting that [you are a YEC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_Encounter#Hiring_practices) and also that [you reject homosexuality, same-sex marriage and premarital sex](http://fox13now.com/2016/06/21/state-supports-noahs-ark-theme-park-not-all-residents-on-board/). (Having said that, they will probably find enough people who hold all those beliefs or are willing to lie about having them.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/144 "2017-06-28T14:19:14Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I’ve seen pictures of it, it’s on [Google Maps](https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Creation+Museum/@39.0852498,-84.7813849,3a,75y,110.37h,84.64t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s9ci77sqOdP4AAAQvxdP7pQ!2e0!3e2!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D9ci77sqOdP4AAAQvxdP7pQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D129%26h%3D106%26yaw%3D124.193665%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841d1cde443c219:0x37acc1b9e7f681f4!8m2!3d39.0862752!4d-84.7830657), and to be fair it looks like a beautifully made museum. He really did put the money into making it a nice experience. It’s just full of misguided nonsense. Yeah, I clicked through and it looks nice. As in the landscaping is well done and those dinosaurs would be well placed in an actual Natural History context and not an “Allosaurs used to nuzzle caribou in the Garden of Eden” context. Good effort although ultimately misguided effort. And the $40 price tag to get in is just loopy. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/145 "2017-06-28T15:33:52Z")
Learn from history, Ark guy. Jim and Tammy Bakker’s [Heritage USA](http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/sc/SCFTMheritageusa_ashley.jpg) collapsed because it was run by scam artists masquerading as Christian paragons, not because atheists sabotaged it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/146 "2017-06-28T23:02:05Z")
Now Hammy doesn’t want to pay [a 50 cent per ticket safety fee](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/06/28/ark-encounter-to-avoid-paying-local-safety-fee-now-says-its-a-ministry/). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/147 "2017-06-28T23:05:40Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Should I be happy or sad that I immediately recognized it as Hermes questioning the logic of Zoidberg burning down his shell on the outskirts of the lost city of Atlanta? So many great quotes from that episode alone. ‘‘Ocean madness is no excuse for ocean rudeness!’’ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/148 "2017-07-01T03:24:44Z")
Did Ken Ham ever record [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MnQt-sxwGw)? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/149 "2017-07-01T10:40:55Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > The place gets 10,000 visitors on a single day on some weekends. They expect to have $750,000 in tax revenue this year. There are 400 buses scheduled to visit this summer. The parking lot is often half full. That’s 2,000 cars. It’s not failing. > [Rainy daze: Is Noah's Ark actually sinking? | WND | by Bob Unruh](http://www.wnd.com/2017/06/fake-news-media-claim-new-noahs-ark-sinking/) If that’s the case, one tends to wonder what, exactly, Mr. Ham is blaming atheists for… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/150 "2017-07-01T11:55:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. That’s for long-term parking(40 days). > 2. you get a free carwash. 1. The carwash is damned. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/151 "2017-07-01T12:28:51Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Here](https://thimblerigsark.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/my-review-of-ken-hams-ark-encounter-theme-park/) is a good review of the Ark Park by someone who is in a position to be sympathetic with the cause. I love it. [Quote=Thimblerig’s Ark] Would Jesus build an Ark Park, or would he turn over the tables in the gift shop? [/quote] And as for the $40 admission, I balked at $18 for the [Musical Instrument Museum](https://mim.org/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwkN3KBRCu2fWmy9LLqN4BEiQANP9-Wv2ExtpubqL7L02NsxMm5NV6p6FWjxz8xpqMsuheRaYaAsO38P8HAQ) (since raised to $20) and wasn’t threatened to be ejected by security for “disrespectful language.” I did attend a performance there and what I saw of the museum (it was after hours) was pretty impressive, much more so than pix I’ve seen of the Ark Park. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/152 "2017-07-01T13:37:55Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > 1. The carwash is damned. But you get your choice of toppings. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/153 "2017-07-01T14:39:00Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Here](https://thimblerigsark.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/my-review-of-ken-hams-ark-encounter-theme-park/) is a good review of the Ark Park by someone who is in a position to be sympathetic with the cause. Which starts off with “reportedly the largest timber-framed structure in the world,” which, of course, it isn’t. The whole damn thing would fit inside the Tilamook Air Museum. But religious nutters are not ones to let facts stand in their way. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/154 "2017-07-01T14:47:19Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Which starts off with “reportedly the largest timber-framed structure in the world,” which, of course, it isn’t. The whole damn thing would fit inside the Tilamook Air Museum. But religious nutters are not ones to let facts stand in their way. [The nutter speaks](https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2016/01/26/more-false-accusations-against-ark-refuted/). ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/155 "2017-07-01T15:00:14Z")
I see this whole episode, as being most useful to provide insight into some informative human failure behaviors. I’ve seen this overall story repeated a number of times, at different levels of endeavor, always with the same basic elements. A group of people who are fanatically enamored of some person or idea, get caught up with defending the blatantly obvious defects in their beloved focal point, and excitedly succumb to the intoxicating allure of classic double-think. In an effort to prove to each other and to themselves, that they really DO love their idol (or ideal) with every fabric of their being, they attribute vastly more value, importance, and downright magical energy to it, than even they truly believe, in their heart of hearts. And to prove things to each other, and to fight off the bad feelings they are already experiencing for having recognized how truly two-minded they actually are about it all, they purposely blind themselves and each other to reality altogether. The final step, is to erect some large public manifestation, not of their real beliefs, but of their now wildly exaggerated fantasy. A young person who has been told by their parents that the person they have been dating and sleeping with, is actually objectionable, runs off and MARRIES the person, even though all they really meant to do to begin with, was have fun sex regularly. These guys may have initiated this monstrous nonsense, because they failed to realize that the majority of the people around them who get mad at atheists and others who poo-poo the Bible stories, aren’t actually upset because they avidly believe those stories to the nth degree. Most of them are just mad(or feel threatened in other ways) about being insulted or belittled for their beliefs in general, and are PRETENDING to believe the exact letter of the King James translation of the Bible, as a way to thumb their noses at their opponents. When you try to turn someone’s resentful sassing of an opponent into a functional monument, you usually just end up embarrassing them instead. Usually at a tremendous loss, too. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/156 "2017-07-01T16:02:11Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > The place gets **10,000 visitors on a single day** on some weekends. **They expect to have $750,000 in tax revenue this year**. There are 400 buses scheduled to visit this summer. The parking lot is **often** half full. That’s 2,000 cars. It’s not failing. > [Rainy daze: Is Noah's Ark actually sinking? | WND | by Bob Unruh](http://www.wnd.com/2017/06/fake-news-media-claim-new-noahs-ark-sinking/) My bolding. If you are going to quote fluff pieces, at least quote them accurately. The 10,000 is for both the ark and the creation museums, combined. They are claiming 7,500 visitors to the ark on one particular day. They also claim 10,500 for both museums on another particular day. However, you also didn’t quote that they expect only 1,000,000 visitors this, which is 2,740 visitors per day. That number is also considerably less than the 2 million visitors they claimed would attend. The adjective used to describe the frequency of 2,000 cars in the parking lot was “sometimes” and not “often” as you wrote. I can link to dictionary definitions if there are any questions concerning the difference. The estimated tax revenue also is not dated. Was the estimate made prior to the opening? Not stated. It’s possible that the venue itself isn’t losing money. However, they received considerable tax payer assistance on promises that local businesses would benefit, something which has not materialized. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/157 "2017-07-01T16:32:19Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [The nutter speaks](https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2016/01/26/more-false-accusations-against-ark-refuted/). Fair enough. It is largest timber frame building but not the world’s wooden building. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/158 "2017-07-01T17:10:09Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If that’s the case, one tends to wonder what, exactly, Mr. Ham is blaming atheists for… If the place really is not in financial trouble, he’s likely pretending it is to extract more concessions from the local and state governments. Atheists are just the whipping boy in either case. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/159 "2017-07-01T17:21:13Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If that’s the case, one tends to wonder what, exactly, Mr. Ham is blaming atheists for… For not showing up. If an atheist goes into the ark, they will be instantly converted into a YEC christian. Then they can go get their atheist friends to come and be converted, and so on. It’s like multilevel marketing for your soul. If only the atheists would cooperate with the plan, everything would be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/160 "2017-07-01T17:59:24Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Fair enough. It is largest timber frame building but not the world’s wooden building. Maybe the largest timber frame in the US but not the largest in [the](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipro_Hachiko_Dome) [world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C5%8Ddai-ji). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575.md?page=9)