# Ken Ham blames "Ark Encounter" failure on atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575 "2017-06-21T23:28:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/161 "2017-07-01T18:15:01Z")
[Tillamook sure looks like a timber frame to me!](https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8550/29640707283_f5152d80b6_k.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/162 "2017-07-01T19:14:45Z")
Some data: [The “ark”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_Encounter#Design_and_construction): 510 feet long, 85 feet wide, and 51 feet high.\* [Tillamook Hangar B](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillamook_Air_Museum): 1,072 feet long and 296 feet wide 192 feet tall. The numbers tell it all. The “shipping box” for the hangar is over 27 times larger than one for the ark. (Actual volume comparisons are tricky.) Note that they don’t claim that Hangar B is the largest timber frame building, but the largest clear-span timber structure. I.e., there presumably is a _larger_ non-clear span timber building somewhere. But certain religious people don’t let facts stand in the way. - Note that these are based on the Biblical dimensions with a generous definition of cubit. Actual ark size would be smaller still. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/163 "2017-07-01T19:21:00Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Note that they don’t claim that Hangar B is the largest timber frame building, but the largest clear-span timber structure. I.e., there presumably is a _larger_ non-clear span timber building somewhere. [Tōdai-ji](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C5%8Ddai-ji), for example. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/164 "2017-07-01T19:33:37Z")
Not to mention that the ark contains [95 tons of steel](https://www.curbed.com/2015/7/8/9943156/answers-in-genesis-ark-encounter). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/165 "2017-07-03T16:22:22Z")
Hammy continues to [ride the blame train](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/03/ken-ham-blames-williamstown-ky-again-for-impeding-ark-encounters-success/). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/166 "2017-07-03T20:34:08Z")
Maybe if he built further south. Halfway between Shelbyville and Simpsonville, for example. Or near (the land of) Goshen. Come to think of it, I have some distant cousins around Williamstown. I wonder how they feel about all this. ---
**Author:** ![the\_ignored](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@the\_ignored](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_ignored)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/167 "2017-07-03T21:03:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But … [this clown in the Orlando paper](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-ed-disney-guests-down-orlando-too-gay-for-evangelical-christians-20170614-story.html) says Everything Is Awesome, thanks to evangelicals abandoning Disney in that non-gay-hating Orlando and going to see the Ark instead. > > Could he be, um, wrong? (gasp!) Oh christ! That “clown” who wrote that editorial? He’s the head of the group that gave Ham’s park the projected attendance numbers that he used to fool the Kentucky gov’t with in the first place! To top it off, he’s also a co-writer with Ham on their book “Already Gone”, where they whine about lower church attendance or something. [Source](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2016/1/the-ark-encounter-will-not-qualify-for-18-million-in-tax-rebates/). > [@](#): > > The Ark Encounter estimates, as seen below, come from a report the park commissioned on its own from America’s Research Group (ARG). ARG is owned and operated by **Britt Beemer** , a man who has co-authored multiple books with Ken Ham. > > ``` > *Based on an extensive independent feasibility study conducted by America’s Research Group, we expect over 1,600,000 guests our first year.* > > ``` > > This same myth was also even more greatly exaggerated by Ken Ham who [wrote on his website](https://answersingenesis.org/ministry-news/ark-encounter/ark-encounter-great-evangelistic-outreach/): > > - … the full-size Noah’s Ark, when it opens in 2016, is estimated to attract up to 2 million visitors a year…\* > > That is a rather large discrepancy and there is little reason to believe Ark Encounter officials believed the information they passed on to state officials. They even went as far as to predict an increase in museum attendance, an attraction that has never reached its own attendance goals. More details from the [Press Release](https://web.archive.org/web/20160213031316/http://www.danarel.com/downloads/press_release_2015_01_20.pdf) that Dan got a hold of: > [@](#): > > Projections in Scenario B included 325,000 the first year, peaking to 425,00 the third year, and plateauing at 275,000 by year 10. Ark Encounter and Answers in Genesis have publicly proclaimed attendance projections of 1.2 to 2 million per year. However, these projection figures were for the 2010 proposal, not the 2014 proposal. > > The 2010 proposal was for a $172 million project and was a multi-day attraction, while the 2014 proposal was for a $73 million project that consisted mainly of Noah’s Ark. **More importantly, the group hired by Answers in Genesis to project attendance, America’s Research Group, has several conflicts of interest. The president of America’s Research Group is Britt Beemer, who is also a co-author with Ken Ham on the book Already Gone. Furthermore, research by Beemer and America’s Research Group is featured in Already Compromised, another book authored by Ken Ham.** The Hunden Report contains the only non-biased attendance projections for the 2014 project. > > The Hunden report also reveals a very small net fiscal impact of only $4.9 million when compared to the $18.25 million cost of the tax incentives. > > Finally, the Hunden report notes a steady decline in attendance at the Creation Museum. The exact numbers were redacted since they could be used by Creation Museum competitors. However, the report states “…each year the attendance figures have decreased… This peak, the decline, is typical for museums, aquariums, and other attractions. The figures for 2014, however, suggests much lower attendance for the full year, as opposed to a plateauing of attendance.” It should be noted that the large drop in attendance at the Creation Museum occurred after the February 4, 2014, debate between Ken Ham and Bill Nye. So: 1. Conflict of interest problem 2. Ham’s allegation is bullshit, as an **actual** independent group had projected this lower attendance for this park of his. It’s not “atheists” who are messing Ham up: He’s trying to explain away the fact that his co-worker’s “independent” numbers are wrong, while hoping no one brings up Hunden’s report. ---
**Author:** ![the\_ignored](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@the\_ignored](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_ignored)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/168 "2017-07-03T21:21:42Z")
I hope someone here is willing to temporarily register on that newspaper web site, so they can post the details of the conflict of interest in the comments section of Beemer’s guest column. ---
**Author:** ![Ennui](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ennui/32/3396_2.png) [@Ennui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ennui)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/169 "2017-07-03T22:27:45Z")
Ken just needs to be a little more creative and expansive in his thinking. Instead of leaving half his parking lot empty all the time he could fence off half of it, paint continents on it and call it the Flat Earth museum. Two biblically accurate attractions for the price of one. Take that you Pythagoras worshiping Darwinites. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/170 "2017-07-03T22:33:46Z")
He should hire Jim Bakker as a front man, convert the ark stables to time-shares, and tele-devotional-guilt into penury every simple minded person within broadcast distance. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/171 "2017-07-03T22:43:10Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > He should hire Jim Bakker as a front man, convert the ark stables to time-shares, and tele-devotional-guilt into penury every simple minded person within broadcast distance. Nah, Jim is busy selling [Buckets-o-Crap](http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/12/03/456677535/apocalypse-chow-we-tried-televangelist-jim-bakkers-survival-food) for the Zombie Apocalypse. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/172 "2017-07-03T22:46:36Z")
Especially as [Bakker is now pitching survival food](https://store.jimbakkershow.com/product/staying-alive-time-of-trouble/). Seems like a match made in heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/173 "2017-07-03T22:49:05Z")
Pity the Orange RC snapped up the Crystal Cathedral. It would have looked terrific with oars flapping about out its prayer spire’s upper windows. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/174 "2017-07-04T01:50:36Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Here](https://thimblerigsark.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/my-review-of-ken-hams-ark-encounter-theme-park/) is a good review of the Ark Park by someone who is in a position to be sympathetic with the cause. Okay, now I’m not interested in even a virtual tour. I assumed it would actually have decent animatronics and stuff in it. With that much money spent, I assumed it would have something entertaining in it, and not just be a bunch of motionless exhibits with posters. There’s the reason for the failure. The only way this possibly would work is if this was a “museum” that was fun for the kids, so they’d pester their parents to take them. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/175 "2017-07-04T03:22:48Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I agree 10,000%. > > I wonder if local people are willing to work there, or if he has to import employees, and have also heard that the “docents” who are ostensibly there to answer questions are also under orders to chastise, or even escort out, anyone who ridicules or speaks negatively of the exhibits. 😕 I mentioned this on another website, and a poster there said that she and her husband were touring an LDS museum in Salt Lake City, and they were asked to leave because her husband was pointing out some of the less savory aspects of Joseph Smith’s life. 😃 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/176 "2017-07-04T03:59:45Z")
As part of the Japanese asset bubble in the late 89s and early 90s and then in the immediate aftermath, there were a number of collaborations between local governments and businesses in making projects which were supposed to bring in the tourists. The vast majority failed because if it were actually viable then the projects could get funding through traditional methods. In the end, the local taxpayers got taken for a ride. The business owners would make sure they got their money no matter what. The government officials never were penalized. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > [S]he and her husband were touring an LDS museum in Salt Lake City, and they were asked to leave because her husband was pointing out some of the less savory aspects of Joseph Smith’s life. I’m sure that I would even be allowed to enter in the first place. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/177 "2017-07-04T04:13:18Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > As part of the Japanese asset bubble in the late 89s and early 90s and then in the immediate aftermath, there were a number of collaborations between local governments and businesses in making projects which were supposed to bring in the tourists. The vast majority failed because if it were actually viable then the projects could get funding through traditional methods. > > In the end, the local taxpayers got taken for a ride. The business owners would make sure they got their money no matter what. The government officials never were penalized. That goes on in the United States all the time, and not just for things like the Ark Encounter. Anyone remember the early to mid 1990s, when Vegas was supposed to be the next family-friendly attraction? :dubious: Yeah, that didn’t work out so well. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/178 "2017-07-04T12:33:41Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Nah, Jim is busy selling [Buckets-o-Crap](http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/12/03/456677535/apocalypse-chow-we-tried-televangelist-jim-bakkers-survival-food) for the Zombie Apocalypse. What do Raptured Christians need survivalist stuff for? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/179 "2017-07-04T13:29:18Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > What do Raptured Christians need survivalist stuff for? Probably marketed to the moneyed suckers who are also post-tribulationists. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575/180 "2017-07-04T13:32:33Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > What do Raptured Christians need survivalist stuff for? It doesn’t have to make sense. Jim Bakker is just a guy who likes to separate fools from their money. Whether it’s idiot fundies or idiot survivalists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-ham-blames-ark-encounter-failure-on-atheists/789575.md?page=10)