# Ken Lay's Death is BOGUS **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793 "2006-07-10T00:26:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/1 "2006-07-10T00:26:37Z")
I don’t know what happened, but this death is just too convenient. Lay was friends with the most powerful men in the world and could have taken a lot of very powerful people with him if he wanted to make a plea bargain as the real depth of Enron’s corruption has never been nor will be fully explored. And now as a result of his death, it will never be. Remember, Cliff Baxter The Vice Chairman who ‘comitted suicide’ just before he was to testify before the House, a couple of days AFTER he hired body guards? Yes, I realize that to say he was murdered or is still alive with a face lift and new ID is a stretch, but the idea has occurred to me more than once. Something just does not seem quite right. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/2 "2006-07-10T00:33:03Z")
It’s certainly possible. It really does sound too dramatic, but it is a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/3 "2006-07-10T00:37:22Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > It’s certainly possible. It really does sound too dramatic, but it is a possibility. Meh. If he was going to fake his death, he should have done it a long time ago, before legal costs and the feds used up his estate (his relatives are now complaining about being broke). I’ll admit I’d feel happier with a DNA test, open coffin funeral and a stake through the heart, but I think this is verging on the unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/4 "2006-07-10T00:42:04Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Meh. If he was going to fake his death, he should have done it a long time ago, before legal costs and the feds used up his estate (his relatives are now complaining about being broke). I’ll admit I’d feel happier with a DNA test, open coffin funeral and a stake through the heart, but I think this is verging on the unlikely. There’s the argument that he was killed by the Bush Administration, before he implicated them in his misdeeds, or blabbed what he knew about theirs. I have no idea if they did, but I find it perfectly believable that they would; it would be small potatoes compared to some of the other stuff they’ve done. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/5 "2006-07-10T00:46:52Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Meh. If he was going to fake his death, he should have done it a long time ago, before legal costs and the feds used up his estate (his relatives are now complaining about being broke). Yeah, but Lay honestly [thought he was innocent and would be acquitted](http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/25/news/newsmakers/enron_verdict/index.htm): > [@](#): > > Speaking to reporters outside the courthouse, Lay expressed shock at the verdict and continued to maintain his innocence as his wife Linda stood by his side. > > “I firmly believe I am innocent of the charges,” he said. “Despite what has happened I’m still a very blessed man.” ---
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/6 "2006-07-10T00:47:51Z")
Just saying he _could_ be pulling the oldest trick in the book, and everybody he ripped off would be falling for it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/7 "2006-07-10T00:50:42Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > There’s the argument that he was killed by the Bush Administration, before he implicated them in his misdeeds, or blabbed what he knew about theirs. I have no idea if they did, but I find it perfectly believable that they would; it would be small potatoes compared to some of the other stuff they’ve done. Oh, great, now we have two kinds of conspiracy theories associated with Lay’s death. Again, common sense argues against: if Lay wanted to blab on the Bush (assuming he was aiming for a reduced sentence) he would have done it before his trial began, rather than antagonising the judges by going through the useless rigmarole of a trial and _then_ turning squealer. Plus, he seems to have had a consistent belief that God would save him from serving his sentence (funny how that works out :D), so I doubt that he would have felt the need to try and rat anyhow. And, for that matter, if the dastardly Bush administration was going to kill Lay (presumably while twirling their black moustaches and cackling), why do it now? Simpler and safer to do so when the first Enron scandal was detected, if they were worried about Lay turning patsy. On the other hand, if Skilling (name?) drops dead next week, you can bet I’ll be reconsidering my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/8 "2006-07-10T00:51:22Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > There’s the argument that he was killed by the Bush Administration, before he implicated them in his misdeeds, or blabbed what he knew about theirs. I have no idea if they did, but I find it perfectly believable that they would; it would be small potatoes compared to some of the other stuff they’ve done. You mean like the Clintons killling Vince Foster? Yeah, right. Look, what secrets does Ken Lay and only Ken Lay know? If we start seeing all of his family and friends “disappear” in the next few weeks, then that might make sense. Otherwise, if you got evidence let’s see it. If you don’t, then you’re just one more conspiracy theorist, of which the world has an oversupply. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/9 "2006-07-10T00:51:43Z")
What you do you expect him to say, “Yep, the prosecutor has got me covered. This trial is a fomality, and I’ll be sent away to prison for a long time.”? Of COURSE he’s going to maintain his innocence, even if he thought beating the rap was a long shot. Unless he was ready to plead guilty he’s going to loudly claim innocence. And I distinctly remember hearing on the news that an autopsy was performed. I imagine they did some elementary identification on the body to confirm it was Lay. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/10 "2006-07-10T00:52:14Z")
here we go :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/11 "2006-07-10T00:54:21Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Look, what secrets does Ken Lay and only Ken Lay know? Well now, if we knew that, they wouldn’t be secrets would they? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/12 "2006-07-10T00:57:46Z")
He must have been under \*\*enormous \*\* stress almost continously for several years. A heart attack isn’t terribly surprising. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/13 "2006-07-10T00:58:26Z")
Why yes, it’s all perfectly reasonable. He’s gone into hiding in Venezuela. Hitler, JFK and Jimmy Hoffa needed a fourth person to sit in on their poker games. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/14 "2006-07-10T00:58:38Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > And I distinctly remember hearing on the news that an autopsy was performed. I imagine they did some elementary identification on the body to confirm it was Lay. [Crazy Conspiracy Theory] If I were a public official earning a meager (in comparison with a CEO) salary and I was in charge of dealing with dead bodies, a couple million dollars to help someone fake their death would be a rather attractive offer. [/Crazy Conspiracy Theory] ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/15 "2006-07-10T01:00:42Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > There’s the argument that he was killed by the Bush Administration, before he implicated them in his misdeeds, or blabbed what he knew about theirs. I have no idea if they did, but I find it perfectly believable that they would; it would be small potatoes compared to some of the other stuff they’ve done. Although I would agree they’re done things morally worse, I don’t think they’ve done anything as legally risky. They know they’re going to have the support of plenty of Americans and no clear legal ramifications if they go to war over any damn reason, but if they get caught getting a guy whacked that’s another story. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/16 "2006-07-10T01:10:14Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > but if they get caught getting a guy whacked that’s another story. Why do I smell a “What Bush would say if caught whacking Ken Lay” contest brewing? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/17 "2006-07-10T01:15:41Z")
Maybe a corporate desk surfer’s heart just gave up. Them 18 hole walks can only do so much to counter the excess of success. The man was under a tad of pressure to say the least. It’s not exactly a rare way for a man of his demographic to go. Was there even an indication that he had more to say? I would think that anything he had to say would have been used in the trial or at least as leverage before it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/18 "2006-07-10T01:16:22Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > Why yes, it’s all perfectly reasonable. He’s gone into hiding in Venezuela. > > Hitler, JFK and Jimmy Hoffa needed a fourth person to sit in on their poker games. What about Elvis? You should have five for poker. I can see it now: Elvis “Common baby! Daddy needs a new pair of blue suede shoes!” Lay “I fold” Hitler “NEIN!!!” JFK “er aah…I need that two of spades like I need a hole in my head. Comaan Hoffa. You’ve been aah…uncharacteristicly tight-lipped tonight. Show us what you’ve got…” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/19 "2006-07-10T01:17:58Z")
> [@TheFonz](#): > > Just saying he _could_ be pulling the oldest trick in the book, and everybody he ripped off would be falling for it. Well, then someone should check the rafters at the funeral. The authorities might find Ken Lay, Tom Sawyer, and Huck Finn watching the ceremonies. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/20 "2006-07-10T01:25:45Z")
> [@TheFonz](#): > > I don’t know what happened, but this death is just too convenient. Bet _he_ doesn’t think so. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793.md?page=2)