# Ken Lay's Death is BOGUS **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793 "2006-07-10T00:26:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/61 "2006-07-10T21:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] And anyhow, how does killing Lay allow the heirs to get their hands on his secret slush funds? … Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, this does not make sense. [/QUOTE] It does if he committed suicide, and made the necessary arrangements before hand. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/62 "2006-07-10T22:22:16Z")
But if he can give his heirs access to his secret slush funds, why can’t he do that when he’s still alive? We’ve got a couple of theories floating around here, but they’re all incompatible. 1. Ken Lay died of a heart attack. 2. Ken Lay was murdered by his heirs to get his fortune. 3. Ken Lay was murdered by Haliburton because he knew too much. 4. Ken Lay committed suicide 5. Ken Lay faked his death and is now headed for Guatemala with a new face and a suitcase full of cash. 2 doesn’t make sense, he didn’t have a huge fortune anymore. 3 doesn’t make sense, why wait till now? 4 only makes sense if he killed himself so his heirs could get the life insurance money. 5 assumes that a suitcase full of cash will get you very far. It’s not easy to transfer funds around the globe when you’re a fugitive. It’s not easy to find a crooked plastic surgeon who’ll STAY BOUGHT. Y’know, sometimes people just die. Sometimes a crazed lone nut takes a rifle into a book depository and blows someone’s head off for no particular reason that makes sense. Sometimes people lose fortunes through sheer stupidity and incompetance. Sometimes the simple answers are wrong, but most times they’re right. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/63 "2006-07-10T22:22:47Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Or, behind door number three, we have suicide, to protect his fortune, and thus his family, from civil lawsuits. [/QUOTE] I sure hope he didn’t, because that wouldn’t work. As the old joke goes, the difference between lawyers and ticks is that ticks drop off of you when you’re dead. Assuming there’s actually anything left, his death won’t have any effect on the civil suits. DeLay’s estate is still liable, and he left behind plenty of testimony to support a judgment when he testified in his criminal trial. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/64 "2006-07-10T22:26:06Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] DeLay’s estate is still liable, and he left behind plenty of testimony to support a judgment when he testified in his criminal trial. [/QUOTE] Heh…um, make that “Lay’s” estate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/65 "2006-07-10T22:32:33Z")
[QUOTE=TheFonz] Coincidence? Of course it is, everything on the straightdope is. [/QUOTE] A vast majority of so-called correspondences in the WORLD are actually coincidences. Only conspiracy nuts and religious fanatics (whether traditional or New Age) think otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/66 "2006-07-10T22:45:03Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] Assuming there’s actually anything left, his death won’t have any effect on the civil suits. [/QUOTE] Okay, one caveat I have to add here: his death means that punitive damages can’t be sought, only compensatory damages, but I don’t think that’'ll be a big enough margin to justify offing himself. Either way his estate was/is going to be bankrupted. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/67 "2006-07-11T00:04:20Z")
I thought the number one theory about Ken Lay being killed was that he had information that would implicate Dubya himself or other other Pubbie party minions. I agree that Dubya and Party would have no scruples to convince them from committing such an act, but in the total absence of proof we have only our suspicions. However, pooh-poohing the notion that Lay would be killed because of this or that minor consideration is silly – there are all sorts of reasons we don’t know which might dictate when and how it would be done, if it were done at all. ---
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/68 "2006-07-11T00:04:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, this does not make sense. WOOOOOW!!! What the hell doesn’t make sense? The guy was headed for jail, he had a lot of partners in crime that will never be caught because he didn’t sell them out (called friends), and so he faked his death and is now headed for Guatemala. Are you not capable of imagining that a guy headed for jail would want to do this? Forget his fortunes or anything like that, when it comes down to it he was headed for jail and had everything to gain from this move. What doesn’t make sense to me is that this doesn’t make sense to you. Just what the hell is your agenda on this site? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/69 "2006-07-11T00:10:59Z")
[QUOTE=TheFonz] Are you not capable of imagining that a guy headed for jail would want to do this? Forget his fortunes or anything like that, when it comes down to it he was headed for jail and had everything to gain from this move. [/quote] Congrats. Now all you have to do is prove that he could’ve done it and that he actually did it. But since you’ve established he might have wanted to do it, you’re practically home free. > [@](#): > > What doesn’t make sense to me is that this doesn’t make sense to you. Just what the hell is your agenda on this site? Read the masthead. It’s true that he might have wanted to get out of going to jail, but that doesn’t mean every single theory that ties into that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/70 "2006-07-11T00:40:55Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Read the masthead. [/QUOTE] Yar! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/71 "2006-07-11T00:47:34Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Actually, he’s in a deep freezer next to Walt Disney and Jimmy Hoffa, and you **will** hear from each of them again! [/QUOTE] In reality, Disney was cremated and his ashes interred at Forest Lawn. A pity, really. If he’d been frozen it would have given a whole new meaning to _Disney On Ice_. ---
**Author:** ![TheFonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TheFonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFonz)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/72 "2006-07-11T01:18:24Z")
Yeah, another thing that doesn’t make sense is that a guy who was hiring body guards to protect his life, commits suicide 2 days later, the day before he’s set to testify. But oh well, leave to the Dopers to recognize pure coincidence when it slaps them on the forehead. I mean DAMN, all I want is to see a body, before any evidence of foul play is cremated. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/73 "2006-07-11T01:27:57Z")
Rule of thumb: If you find yourself putting air quotes around the word “coincidence” more than twice in the same breath, you may be a conspiracy nut. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/74 "2006-07-11T01:28:08Z")
[QUOTE=TheFonz] Yeah, another thing that doesn’t make sense is that a guy who was hiring body guards to protect his life, commits suicide 2 days later, the day before he’s set to testify. But oh well, leave to the Dopers to recognize pure coincidence when it slaps them on the forehead. [/QUOTE] Now, now, don’t you know it’s wildly paranoid to think that a man who hires bodyguards might fear for his life ? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/75 "2006-07-11T01:29:56Z")
[QUOTE=TheFonz] But oh well, leave to the Dopers to recognize pure coincidence when it slaps them on the forehead. [/QUOTE] In general, the people on this board don’t find “it can’t be a coincidence” very persuasive. I don’t know why you’re having trouble processing this. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/76 "2006-07-11T01:51:12Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] GD is also the forum for _refuting_ accusations of vast evil conspiracies by governments and other organizations–it’s just not the forum for taking personal potshots at other posters in the process. [/QUOTE] Got it. Many nuances to learn between GD and the Pit. Still learning. The curve just seems to be higher for me. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/77 "2006-07-11T01:55:15Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] In general, the people on this board don’t find “it can’t be a coincidence” very persuasive. [/QUOTE] Neither is “it just doesn’t make sense”. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/78 "2006-07-11T11:55:57Z")
[QUOTE=TheFonz] Yeah, another thing that doesn’t make sense is that a guy who was hiring body guards to protect his life, commits suicide 2 days later, the day before he’s set to testify. But oh well, leave to the Dopers to recognize pure coincidence when it slaps them on the forehead. I mean DAMN, all I want is to see a body, before any evidence of foul play is cremated. [/QUOTE] If he committed suicide. Which he likely didn’t. Sometimes people just drop dead. You have no evidence that anything besdies a heart attack happened at all besides a vague suspicion that this death was convienient to somebody somewhere. And no, unless you’re the county coroner for Aspen Colorado or an immediate relation to Lay, you don’t get to see the body. Thems the breaks. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/79 "2006-07-11T12:27:00Z")
So, I think we’ve established that there is no such thing as death by natural causes, ever, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793/80 "2006-07-11T12:35:01Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] If your going to complain about me, complain about what I actually say. I _didn’t_ say that was evidence; I didn’t say I _had_ evidence; I said that I’d heard the theory, and wouldn’t be surprised if it was true given what Bush and friends are like. [/QUOTE] But that’s my point. The only reason you think it’s possible is because it fits with your impression of a man you’ve never met and likely know little to nothing about. Which, frankly, isn’t much a reason for me to waste time considering it. It seems that you’re working pretty hard to fit the world into your preconceived notions. Why not consider the fact that Bush might not be responsible for everything bad in the world? This board is dedicated to fighting ignorance, after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-lays-death-is-bogus/363793.md?page=5)