# Ken Wilber explains ISIS **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234 "2015-10-20T14:05:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/1 "2015-10-20T14:05:42Z")
Is the Middle East is a shit pit of conflicted Blues with Oranges trying to manipulate and control them ? And do the Blues need to grow out of it ? > [@](#): > > 1. Blue: Mythic Order . Life has meaning, direction, and purpose, with outcomes determined by an all-powerful Other or Order. This righteous Order enforces a code of conduct based on absolutist and unvarying principles of “right” and “wrong.” Violating the code or rules has severe, perhaps everlasting repercussions. Following the code yields rewards for the faithful. Basis of ancient nations . Rigid social hierarchies; paternalistic; one right way and only one right way to think about everything. Law and order; impulsivity controlled through guilt; concrete-literal and fundamentalist belief; obedience to the rule of Order; strongly conventional and conformist. Often “religious” or “mythic” [in the mythic-membership sense; Graves and Beck refer to it as the “saintly/absolutistic” level], but can be secular or atheistic Order or Mission. > > Where seen: Puritan America, Confucian China, Dickensian England, Singapore discipline, totalitarianism, codes of chivalry and honor, charitable good deeds, religious fundamentalism (e.g., Christian and Islamic), Boy and Girl Scouts, “moral majority,” patriotism. 40% of the population, 30% of the power. > > 1. Orange: Scientific Achievement . At this wave, the self “escapes” from the “herd mentality” of blue, and seeks truth and meaning in individualistic terms–hypothetico-deductive, experimental, objective, mechanistic, operational–“scientific” in the typical sense. The world is a rational and well-oiled machine with natural laws that can be learned, mastered, and manipulated for one’s own purposes. Highly achievement oriented, especially (in America) toward materialistic gains. The laws of science rule politics, the economy, and human events. The world is a chess-board on which games are played as winners gain pre-eminence and perks over losers. Marketplace alliances; manipulate earth’s resources for one’s strategic gains. Basis of corporate states . > > Where seen: The Enlightenment, Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged , Wall Street, emerging middle classes around the world, cosmetics industry, trophy hunting, colonialism, the Cold War, fashion industry, materialism, secular humanism, liberal self-interest. 30% of the population, 50% of the power. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/2 "2015-10-20T14:37:29Z")
**Mr. Qwertyasd** , this is pretty obviously not a question with a simple factual answer. Please consider carefully what forum may be appropriate for a thread before posting. I’m moving this to Great Debates. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/3 "2015-10-20T14:44:20Z")
Where is this quote from? I’d like to see it in context. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/4 "2015-10-20T14:56:41Z")
I also want to know where it is, so that I can safely avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/5 "2015-10-20T14:57:45Z")
I would like to know what the Purples and Yellows think about this. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/6 "2015-10-20T14:59:18Z")
It seems to be some kind of hippie new age nonsense called [Spiral Dynamics](http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm). Every human society is neatly colour-coded, and they’re all planets of hats. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/7 "2015-10-20T14:59:56Z")
As a purple I can say it’s not bad. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/8 "2015-10-20T15:02:14Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > It seems to be some kind of hippie new age nonsense called [Spiral Dynamics](http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm). > > Every human society is neatly colour-coded, and they’re all planets of hats. Good username/post combo!! ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/9 "2015-10-20T15:03:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I would like to know what the Purples and Yellows think about this. Well the Purples are low-level shamanistic types, while the Yellows are quite advanced, and ‘integrated’ and shit. It sounds like an interesting backdrop for an RPG or something. Problem is when people take is seriously. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/10 "2015-10-20T15:06:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where is this quote from? I’d like to see it in context. [http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken\_Wilber\_Spiral\_Dynamics.htm](http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm) ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/11 "2015-10-20T15:07:27Z")
> [@blue\_infinity](#): > > Well the Purples are low-level shamanistic types, while the Yellows are quite advanced, and ‘integrated’ and shit. > > It sounds like an interesting backdrop for an RPG or something. Problem is when people take is seriously. Sorry I mixed up purples and turqoise. I always do that. I feel like a purple in the mornings though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/12 "2015-10-20T15:16:22Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > [http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken\_Wilber\_Spiral\_Dynamics.htm](http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm) Now show me the part that talks about ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/13 "2015-10-20T15:24:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Now show me the part that talks about ISIS. No no, he provides a simple basis which you use to interpret the complexities of the world around you. And ISIS are blues. They need to become Greens at least, or the Oranges will bomb the shit out of them until they go back to being Beiges. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/14 "2015-10-20T15:33:10Z")
All of this talk about ISIL’s barbarity is turning my pants brown. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/15 "2015-10-20T15:33:48Z")
You’ve seemed to have confused ISIS with the whole of the Middle East. Come back when you are not so confused. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/16 "2015-10-20T15:41:19Z")
It’s clearly all Blue from the Mediterranean to the Arabian Sea. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/17 "2015-10-20T15:54:06Z")
Using that scale, isis seems more purple than anything. Either way, why does isis exist? I don’t know. The history of the region is beyond me. Personally I think of them like the Muslim equivalent of the kkk. A far right fascist organization that opposes cultural invasion from outsiders, has hierarchical social structures, authoritarian, etc. But no idea why that exists there. I used to think fascism was a thing of the past, but islamism and North Korea are both fascist movements. North Korea is more fascist than communist. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/18 "2015-10-20T18:05:46Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > [http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken\_Wilber\_Spiral\_Dynamics.htm](http://rationalspirituality.com/articles/Ken_Wilber_Spiral_Dynamics.htm) Why did you assume anyone had a clue as to what you were talking about in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/19 "2015-10-20T18:19:43Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > but islamism and North Korea are both fascist movements. North Korea is more fascist than communist. Fascism must mean “something you dislike” since to apply this word to these two political ideas totally different is nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234/20 "2015-10-20T18:39:31Z")
So would fascism be somewhere between the Blue and the Orange - strong mythical elements, but a modernist approach also for practical reasons ? I think Islam as a whole started to get into Orange territory during it’s renaissance years, and maybe in the early twentieth century, but that sort of philosophical development really threatens the existence of the monotheist religions so it has to slump back into the mythicist and magical thinking of Blue. It does make them useful tools for rivalries between Oranges, though. You just have to thwart too many people becoming Oranges and you can foster a whole bunch of Blues you can shove around the chess board. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ken-wilber-explains-isis/735234.md?page=2)