# Kennedy & "I'm a Berliner": I KNOW we've done this **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 21, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117 "2004-07-21T02:30:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/21 "2004-07-25T01:21:29Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > When I was in New York City, The bismarks I recall eating, and enjoying immensly, were bar shaped, filled with custard, and iced with white or maple icing. Yum. > Peace, > mangeorge Maybe a Bismark is any filled thing of that sort. At the donut shop, when I say “Gimmie a Bismark” I get a thing filled with jelly. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/22 "2004-07-25T01:41:02Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Maybe a Bismark is any filled thing of that sort. At the donut shop, when I say “Gimmie a Bismark” I get a thing filled with jelly. Most likely. I recall seeing Bismarks in the Dunkin’ Donuts back east (east of Arizona). Why oh why are there no Dunkin’ Donut stores in CA? Drool. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/23 "2004-07-25T04:04:47Z")
> [@sarcophilus](#): > > Lambchops, you must be in Victoria. > On a visit to Melbourne as a child I learnt that doughnuts in Vic and NSW differed. > I also got a shock when I asked for scollops for dinner, dear aunty then explained potato cakes. Correct. We have the best form of football AND the best doughnuts. Can’t remember what they call potato cakes / scallops in NZ. It sure freaked me out though. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/24 "2004-07-25T04:38:05Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > When I was in New York City, The bismarks I recall eating, and enjoying immensly, were bar shaped, filled with custard, and iced with white or maple icing. Yum. > Peace, > mangeorge Those were called “Long Johns” (not to be confused with winter underwear) when I was growing up in Chicago. They were also sometimes filled with jelly, and sometimes had chocolate icing. But I really liked the maple ones. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/25 "2004-07-25T05:11:33Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > Those were called “Long Johns” (not to be confused with winter underwear) when I was growing up in Chicago. They were also sometimes filled with jelly, and sometimes had chocolate icing. But I really liked the maple ones. I think you’re right. [this](http://www.kingsbakeryltd.com/images/products/bismarck.jpg) is a bismarck]. Long John also sounds familiar. They’re called “cream filled maple bars” around here, and are a pale imitation of the real thing. Mmmm. Sweet mapley maple icing, cool creamy insides. ---
**Author:** ![mkl12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@mkl12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkl12)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/26 "2004-07-25T06:03:31Z")
> [@dmartin](#): > > I was taught that he could not have truthfully said “Ich bin Berliner” just as I can not truthfully say “Ich bin Amerikaner”, because he was not a Berliner and I am not an American. “Ich bin ein Berliner” is (again, according to how I was taught) somehing vaguely along the lines of “I am like a Berliner”, or “I identify with Berliners” (and, by the way, Ich bin **nicht** ein Amerikaner! 😃 ). No, that’s wrong. Both mean “I **am** a Berliner”. There’s a difference in emphasis and rhythm (which makes his choice of words the better one, imho), but none in meaning. ---
**Author:** ![mkl12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@mkl12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkl12)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/27 "2004-07-25T06:12:36Z")
> [@dmartin](#): > > (and, by the way, Ich bin nicht ein Amerikaner! 😃 ) Probably not. [Those](http://www.malzers.de/images/Produkte/Teilchen_Amerikaner.jpg) are Amerikaners. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/28 "2004-07-25T18:35:49Z")
> [@mkl12](#): > > Probably not. [Those](http://www.malzers.de/images/Produkte/Teilchen_Amerikaner.jpg) are Amerikaners. 😃 There are _cookies_ named for us? Cool! 🆒 They look French. Certainly not. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/29 "2004-07-25T22:45:02Z")
> [@mkl12](#): > > No, that’s wrong. Both mean “I **am** a Berliner”. There’s a difference in emphasis and rhythm (which makes his choice of words the better one, imho), but none in meaning. Looks like some sites agree with you and some with me - see [link](http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/jfk_berliner.htm) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/30 "2004-07-25T23:04:32Z")
> [@Mort Furd](#): > > Actually, jelly filled donut is a bad translation. The things don’t have a hole. That is to say that they more resemble an (extremely) oblate spheroid rather than a toroid. They are deep fried in hot oil, though. In the UK and Ireland, the traditional _dough_nut (not ‘donut’ 😉 ) is an oblate spheroid filled with jam (aka ‘jelly’). Here, the now-popular toroid is a US import. The last time I heard a recording of that wonderful speech, I seemed to hear laughter as well as cheering in the audience’s response. I may have been mishearing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/31 "2004-07-25T23:11:55Z")
Kennedy’s speech is so well known in Germany that the perceived very subtle difference in meaning, that I also feel today, between “Ich bin ein Berliner” and “Ich bin Berliner” may well be a _result_ of that speech, i.e. Kennedy may have influenced German usage. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/32 "2004-07-25T23:15:48Z")
Blah, blah, blah. 😉 The speech, and Kennedy himself, were a high point in American relations with other countries. The East and many Soviet dominated countries heard about it. I hear that even some French people were impressed. He opened our diplomatic arms and gave a nervous country a big, comforting hug. That’s good, IMO. Few were worried about a jelly donut. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117/33 "2004-07-25T23:44:33Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The last time I heard a recording of that wonderful speech, I seemed to hear laughter as well as cheering in the audience’s response. I may have been mishearing, though. The quote appears twice in the speech. The more famous version is the second, but after the first one the translator repeated the sentence word for word. This made both the audience and Kennedy laugh. Unfortunately this is cut in the video below, but you can still _see_ Kennedy’s reaction. > **[socialheadline](https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/)** > > Aktuelle Nachrichten, Informationen und Videos zu Politik, Panorama und Wetter aus Deutschland, Europa und der Welt von t-online.de Nachrichten.  (video in the upper right corner, “Breitband” means broadband) This speech is by far the most famous speech by any US President in Germany and the recording of this quote is guaranteed in any documentary on post-war history. Little trivia item: The mayor mentioned, the man on _Kennedy’s_ left, next to the officer in uniform, is Willy Brandt, future Chancellor and Nobel peace prize winner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kennedy-im-a-berliner-i-know-weve-done-this/256117.md?page=1)