# Kentucky teen and Confederate flag prom dress **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231 "2004-12-22T22:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/41 "2004-12-23T03:21:08Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Americans who are over 18 have the right to wear swastikas, “fuck Bush” t-shirts, and low-rise pants Yes, they do. But they do not have the right to wear them to the Harvard Club – they’ll be putting on a coat and tie for that. The same goes for dressup events hosted by the State. Drop the cash for your governor’s inaugural ball and show up dressed differently from how the invite specified and see if you get in. It’s a pity it’ll take a lawsuit to teach her that when you play dressup you do so by the hosts’ rules. But a quick web search indicates that Mr. Earl Ray brings suits like this not infrequently, so at least it’ll have the benefit of racking up some unbillable hours for him. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/42 "2004-12-23T03:27:05Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I DO know a thing or two about the thing I’m defending and I don’t give a good goddamn if you understand it or not. You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine—I won’t try to impose mine on you if you promise not to try to impose your’s on me. I don’t find Africa offensive, I find the attitude that it is perfectly acceptable to pretend one person is entitled to flaunt some dubious link to a heritage while others are not. I personally think it is about time we all got over the bullshit re slavery and the reminders of it. And deleting those reminders is NOT the way to get over it. No one denies that the Confederate Flag is a part of Southern heritage and culture. No one here is calling it “dubious”. Yet you feel very confident labeling the heritage of another group “dubious”. A group, it just so happens, that is the very target of the Confederate flag. You could have easily picked on other groups, like white people who become Irish once a year or white people who suddenly become Native American when they want to win an argument. But no. You have to put down the real-ass cultural links between black Americans and their African roots…and why? Why would you do this when it has nothing to do with the topic? Can’t you see the bitter irony? Can’t you see there is no comparison between what the “dubious” kente cloth and the “dubious” dreadlocks and the very real-live Confederate Flag represent? Of course people want to keep the former out of public life. It was and still is a damn symbol of hatred. YES IT IS. You can call it whatever you want, but as long as the KKK and racist skinheads wave it…as long as history tells us that folks waved it in the face of darkies on their way to school…then it will be a symbol of hatred. And that means that it should not be flown in polite company. Not deleted. Not forgotten. But it shouldn’t be displayed in public areas unless you’re just looking to upset people. When the Confederate Flag loses all of its baggage and becomes as unoffensive as the “dubious” heritage of African Americans, then you will see people treating it as acceptable. It is that simple. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/43 "2004-12-23T03:28:32Z")
Y’know, as a son of the South, I’m getting a bit offended by these constant comparisons of the Old South with Nazi Germany. So according to some of the logic expressed in this thread, shouldn’t my being offended be enough to make everyone stop doing that? > [@Searching For Truth](#): > > If she spent four years making the dress, as the CNN story said, then I would think she would have taken that time to really mull over what she was doing. Who’s to say she didn’t. Could it be that her interpretation of the symbolism of the dress differs from yours? Obviously her opinion of the attractiveness of the dress differs from yours, but does that make her wrong and you right? > [@Searching For Truth](#): > > I kind of wish that they had let her in, and that her peers could have let her in on the fact that she made a poor choice. Again, you’re making a lot of assumptions. How do you know that her peers would have thought the way you do? Indeed it’s quite possible that her dress would have been a big hit at the prom. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/44 "2004-12-23T03:34:32Z")
OK, so is there some legal precedent out there that makes it obvious that a public-school-sponsored party is not covered by the 1st amendment? The only reason I keep asking is it seems, from the OP’s cite, that there isn’t a clear answer; but I’m not sure if we are meant to understand the issue as being relevant only to school while “in session”. I keep seeing the girl’s lack of recourse posited as obvious, but the OP’s original cite suggests otherwise. The issue, as depicted, appears to be quite murky, actually, with the only relevant case mentioned settled before a clear verdict could be given. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/45 "2004-12-23T03:36:52Z")
I think many, if not most people displaying a confederate flag do so not out of racism but out of rebellion/pride in their region; however, there’s no comparison between the flag and African clothing. One would have to go very much out of their way to find anything offensive about African clothing. The school should have just let her in, only asking her to leave if there was a significant number of complaints. The lawsuit is ridiculous. She claims that she lost scholarship opportunities because the schools thought she was racist, but how did they find out about the situation (if it’s even true)? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/46 "2004-12-23T04:03:24Z")
I’d be OK with her wearing the dress to the prom if the school used little confederate flags as splash guards in all the toilets and urinals. Kind of a fair and balanced thing. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/47 "2004-12-23T04:04:52Z")
The only thing I think she did wrong was press the issue when they already forbade her to wear the dress to the prom. But other than that, I don’t see a problem with it. Nor do I have a problem with people who make prom dresses/suits out of duct tape (saw a picture once, pretty neat 😃 ). ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/48 "2004-12-23T04:30:46Z")
While the girl’s fashion sense may be questionable, it’s the school that’s at fault in this utterly unnecessary fiasco. The dress code made no mention of Confederate memorabilia or design elements. No extra mention was made of a different dress code for the prom. Calling one student before the prom and forbidding her to wear a particular item singled her out from the rest of the student population. The school doesn’t get to cover their stupidity up by telling the rest of the student population _after_ the prom to get rid of their Confederate stuff. As the principal heard about the student’s dress choice the day before the prom, he could have made an announcement to the entire school the day of the prom. Instead, he put his head up his ass and went about things in an incredibly asshatted manner. The principal should be spanked, the school district should apologize to the student and institute a more specific dress code, and the student should drop the lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/49 "2004-12-23T04:31:18Z")
Discrimination. Plain and simple. I see from the posts that, as with the right wing, discrimination is fine with many left wingers as long as it fits into their view of political correctness. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/50 "2004-12-23T04:42:46Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > it’s also funny that they chose to use the battle flag instead of the peacetime flag as a pride symbol. Did the CSA have peacetime? > [@Loopydude](#): > > swastikas are now universally recognized as a mark of pure evil Not true. Several years ago when my neighbors (from India) married off their daughter, they sent out very nice, **very** fancy handmade invitations with big fat honkin’ swastikas on the front. I seriously freakin’ doubt their allegience to the National Socialist party. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/51 "2004-12-23T05:24:02Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > Discrimination. Plain and simple. I see from the posts that, as with the right wing, discrimination is fine with many left wingers as long as it fits into their view of political correctness. ☹ No, it’s not about discrimination. It’s about a private organization (proms are not paid for with school money, they are paid for with ticket sales and fundraisers) being allowed to ban something if they want to. It’s just like the Boy Scouts banning gays; personally, I find that offensive, but it’s their prerogative. As long as they’re not taking public money, they can do as they please. I don’t think the CSA had peacetime, but there was a peacetime flag. It looked similar to the USA flag (see link in **wiggumpuppy** ’s post). ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/52 "2004-12-23T05:40:17Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > I don’t think the CSA had peacetime, but there was a peacetime flag. It looked similar to the USA flag (see link in **wiggumpuppy** ’s post). Right. I realize that they had a peacetime flag but if they never used it then why would we use it now to celebrate our heritage? I’m not supporting the battle flag; I’d actually like a nice compromise like the peacetime flag to be used for “celebrating heritage” but it’d only really be a homerun if it made sense. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/53 "2004-12-23T06:03:05Z")
[ol] [li]It’s an ugly dress; [/li][li]The school should have let her wear her ugly dress that she spent so much time making; [/li]If she thinks the regalia of the Confederate States of America can be separated from the defense of slavery, she is sadly ignorant of history.[/ol] ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/54 "2004-12-23T06:42:52Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > And what, exactly, is the point she’s trying to make with this lawsuit (besides there is such a thing as too much blusher)? I _know!_ I mean, I’m a straight guy but I’d dearly love redoing that girl’s makeup. I know I wouldn’t have much to work with but there has to be SOME way to make that girl attractive! As for the dress, meh. I’ve expressed my attitude toward unreconstructed rebels before but I know that, whatever I say here, there’s no getting rid of them. Our only recourse is to laugh at them and hope they get the message. ---
**Author:** ![Susie\_Derkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Susie\_Derkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susie_Derkins)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/55 "2004-12-23T09:56:04Z")
Four years on the dress, and four minutes on the hair. Girl needs to prioritize. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/56 "2004-12-23T11:22:20Z")
It’s funny. There was an American South before the Confederate mistake, and one after, too. Why is it that in choosing emblems of their heritage, so many people would pick the one that evokes only the treasonous, warmongering portion of their ancestry? Surely there are less shameful and idiotic portions of one’s history that might serve, if the point is a _celebration_ of one’s heritage. Unless, of course, one wishes to specifically endorse that part of his/her history that embraced treason and bloodshed in a doomed defense of slavery that ravaged their own lands and impoverished their own people, which of course is never the case. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/57 "2004-12-23T14:12:36Z")
As a southerner, one who grew up surrounded by the type of people to wear this flag on their shirts, cars, and vans, I can tell you that most of them, in their entire lives, give the subject matter less thought than that which went into even the most hurried post in this thread. It is not about anything of any depth or consequence, it is this… a. “I’m a rebel, by God!” If you ask them against what, the brighest of the dull lot may reply, “The fuckin’ po-lice, gov’ment and taxes.” b. “It looks cool, by God.” (which probably answers the above post, no other piece of southern culture looks as “cool” as the flag, in their eyes) That’s it, really. Hardly any of these fellows could tell you when the Silver War was fought, who Jefferson Davis Hogg was, or what the Dalmation Nancypation accomplished. By accusing 99.999999% them of anything above having a trashy fashion sense, you give them too much credit. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/58 "2004-12-23T14:16:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I think many, if not most people displaying a confederate flag do so not out of racism but out of rebellion/pride in their region… You give them too much credit. I think many of them, especially the ones in non-South regions, do it because they think it’s “cool.” I doubt they give a thought as to what the flag really represents. It is not something to be proud of. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/59 "2004-12-23T14:17:34Z")
…and I see Sir Rhosis already covered what I was going to say… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231/60 "2004-12-23T16:42:48Z")
Can we just nominate that girl to be on What Not To Wear and leave it at that? Look, High Schools make a bunch of stupid rules and high school students have to obey them. That’s just the way it is. If the school told her no, that that’s it. This is not that like that school that did the panty check at it’s dance. What ever happened to that pricepal? If she wants to wear that out for a night on the town, I’d let her. I’d laugh at it but I’d let her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kentucky-teen-and-confederate-flag-prom-dress/281231.md?page=4)