# Kerbal Space Program **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 23, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824 "2011-08-23T22:07:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/81 "2013-06-18T14:56:07Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If it’s spinning around its vertical axis during launch, you can use Q and E to compensate. > 70,000 KM is the highest reaches of the atmosphere, but it obviously thins out a lot before then. I think you mean meters. 70,000 m. Or is that Kerbin Meters? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/82 "2013-06-18T15:46:15Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If it’s spinning around its vertical axis during launch, you can use Q and E to compensate. > 70,000 KM is the highest reaches of the atmosphere, but it obviously thins out a lot before then. Right, even though the atmosphere technically stops at 70KM, I just did a test and air resistance only slowed me down to an appreciable degree when I got below 50KM. For control, I usually pack 2-3 SAS and an advanced SAS module plus 3 reservoirs of RCS. I only use RCS during launch or when pressed for time. During launch phase when you’re using large liquid tanks and engines, you can add large SAS modules and large RCS reservoirs. When do you guys start turning during launch? I like for solid boosters to get me to 10KM, turns about 30 degrees, rely on large fuel tanks + Mainsails to get me to 100KM and then use nozzle engines to first get into proper orbit and go to other planets. Also, I just found out that using the support structures (they look like construction towers with a pad) really helps to avoid situations where the craft is so heavy that I can’t let it rest on its engines. You power up the boosters then immediately release the supports and off it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/83 "2013-06-18T16:21:38Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > For control, I usually pack 2-3 SAS and an advanced SAS module… I think this is massively more than required for a stable launch, unless your design is truly weird. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/84 "2013-06-18T17:57:46Z")
I think that I need to do the next tutorial. I am fairly sure that I have the ability to get ships into LKO. Coming back is another issue. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/85 "2013-06-18T22:02:14Z")
Do the SAS modules actually add some sort of propulsion or something? I thought they were just a computer component that controlled whatever control entities you already had? What’s the benefit to adding more than one? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/86 "2013-06-18T22:08:11Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Do the SAS modules actually add some sort of propulsion or something? I thought they were just a computer component that controlled whatever control entities you already had? What’s the benefit to adding more than one? If you have an advanced SAS (ASAS), there is little to no advantage to adding more. Some say that if you have a very tall rocket, adding a normal SAS can help with stability. My feeling is that if you need more than one SAS to assist with stability, you need to re-think your design. My biggest vehicle design, fit for sending a three-Kerbal lander to Mün, Minmus, or Duna, uses only the advanced SAS. I admit it wobbles a bit in the middle stages, but nothing serious or uncorrectable. ETA: Here’s what the [Kerbal Space Program wiki](http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/SAS) has to say: > [@](#): > > All command pods offer a small amount of SAS torque, and you can add to this by adding more SAS units to the craft. ASAS however is simply either there or not, you can not add multiple units to increase its effect. I will note that there are some people who insist it helps, regardless of this statement, to add more. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/87 "2013-06-18T22:17:33Z")
Ran out of time. Bottom line: use the ASAS. Add one SAS if you have a very tall rocket. Adding more SAS units is probably counterproductive and means you should reconsider some design elements. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/88 "2013-06-19T11:42:11Z")
I have successfully stranded a Kerbal on the Mun. Bill Kerman’s lander bounced on touchdown and landed on its side, leaving him alive but unable to return. ---
**Author:** ![Enilno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@Enilno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enilno)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/89 "2013-06-19T12:46:10Z")
I just lost one of my kerbonauts on Minmus. After a successful landing, I wanted to see if the gravity was low enough to get into orbit with suit thrusters alone. The answer was yes. Unfortunately, coming back down to a safe landing was a lot harder without instruments, and the brave volunteer died on inpact. My next project will be to deal with some of the debris that has piled up in orbit. I designed a rocket with a large cage made of girders and struts in front, which will hopefully be able to catch a piece of debris and bring it down. Haven’t tested it yet but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/90 "2013-06-19T13:11:51Z")
Another Kerbal was just stranded on Mun, after all six legs of the landing gear fell off while on approach. The ascent engines proved a poor substitute. ---
**Author:** ![Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrogance_ex_machina/32/192_2.png) [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogance_Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/91 "2013-06-19T13:13:17Z")
> [@Enilno](#): > > My next project will be to deal with some of the debris that has piled up in orbit. I designed a rocket with a large cage made of girders and struts in front, which will hopefully be able to catch a piece of debris and bring it down. Haven’t tested it yet but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. Kerbal [Planetes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetes)! That sounds great even if it doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/92 "2013-06-19T13:34:46Z")
Finally got a ship into orbit for the first time. However poor Bill is pretty much out of gas. Now that I can get into orbit I need to be able to come back as the next logical step. What should I work on after that? Docking? Is there a tool that lets people share ship designs? ---
**Author:** ![PacifistPorcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PacifistPorcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PacifistPorcupine)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/93 "2013-06-19T13:44:34Z")
As a next step I’d put some probes in orbit around moons/planets. Learning to meet and orbit other bodies is useful. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/94 "2013-06-19T14:06:36Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Finally got a ship into orbit for the first time. However poor Bill is pretty much out of gas. > Now that I can get into orbit I need to be able to come back as the next logical step. What should I work on after that? Docking? Unless you’re only using solid rocket boosters, it is impossible to build a rocket that can reach a stable orbit but can’t reach a stable orbit and then return to Kerbin: all you need to do is slow down enough to momentarily drop below 70,000 metres and you’ll start aerobraking on each pass. Getting to orbit with fuel to spare is still the most important next step, though. > [@](#): > > Is there a tool that lets people share ship designs? The ship designs appear to be stored as plain text, meaning you could theoretically share a ship design just by posting it here. Unfortunately, even the smallest rocket (Solid rocket booster, command pod, parachute) is still almost 500 words and over four pages long. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/95 "2013-06-19T14:09:43Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Finally got a ship into orbit for the first time. However poor Bill is pretty much out of gas. > Now that I can get into orbit I need to be able to come back as the next logical step. What should I work on after that? Docking? Getting into orbit around the Mun. Then landing on the Mun. Then taking off the Mun and getting back to Kerbil. I’m presently at the taking off the Mun stage. I am relying on Xenon engines and electricity to get off the Mun but they seem insufficient. I have two Xenon tanks and plenty of solar panels. It take long for my battery to recharge. However, no thrust seems to be generated. It has to thrust a command module, two Xenon tanks, an ASAS and a RCS tank. Is that really too much for a Xenon engine or am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/96 "2013-06-19T17:09:04Z")
Yeah, I don’t think this xenon-ion engine has the oomph to get into orbit from Mün. The max thrust for one is only 0.5 kN, so even quadrupling them up isn’t going to work to overcome Mün’s gravity, 1.63 m/s², and get to the required escape velocity, which is 807 m/s. I’ll let someone else do the math. Of course to do it accurately, you’d need the mass of your lander. I’ve been using the LV-909 Liquid Fuel Engine for a three-Kerbal lander, which has a thrust of 50 kN, 100x more than than the xenon-ion engine. To be fair, it has way more thrust than I actually need to break into Mün orbit from the surface with my usual vehicle. Anyway, you’d need more xenon-ion engines to break Mün orbit than is at all practical. I only use them for space probes. Be warned though: even with a small probe, the length of burn from the xenon-ion engine to get a transfer orbit going to another planet in the system is quite long. On my first probe to Jool, Hobo IV, I had something like a 45 minute burn. Of course that was using only single engine; for my next deep system probes, I intend to use at least four, which will help a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/97 "2013-06-19T17:11:45Z")
Incidentally, [here’s an article](http://io9.com/nasa-shows-off-a-prototype-of-its-new-xenon-ion-engine-510277963) about a real-world xenon-ion engine NASA is developing. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/98 "2013-06-19T17:17:52Z")
One other thing: you can indeed share vehicles. In your save folder, there is a folder for VAB and and SPH, in which there are \*.craft files. You can share these. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/99 "2013-06-19T18:46:34Z")
I was able to download the full game today. After crashing half a dozen intended orbital fuel depots I went back to basics, and put a nice little probe in orbit around Mun. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824/100 "2013-06-20T21:31:46Z")
I do feel that I am in the early stages of the Mercury program. I was able to return Bill safely back to Kerbin. I then tried to put a ‘Sputnik’ into orbit. Man, that was a great deal harder than I thought it should have been. I am really curious as to how other people have designed their launch vehicles. I am wondering how big I have to build to be able to put an object in orbit around Mun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerbal-space-program/593824.md?page=6)