# Kerry Credibility Problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908 "2004-03-12T15:44:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/41 "2004-03-16T02:54:42Z")
In a way, it is reminiscent of a common SDMB ploy, the “If you won’t answer my loaded question I win!” gambit. Kerry initially said that the people he was talking about didn’t want to be named, the challenge to give thier names is a challenge to betray thier trust, however puny the issue. If he promised them that he wouldn’t name them he shouldn’t. As to Colin Powell bringing his thunderous _gravitas_ to bear…please. That train done gone, you can’t even hear the whistle any more. Mr. Powell has whored his dignity beyond all recognition, reaching his personal acme of harlotry at the UN, when he lied through his teeth for more than an hour. And are there foreign leaders who would prefer Kerry win? Of course there are, you know their names as well as I, damn sure betcha Condi Rice can recite them. Is this some kind of secret? Or are the Bushiviks hoping to portray Kerry as the puppet of the dastardly Jacques Chirac? If that doesn’t work, you think they’ll to connect him to the Rosicrucians? ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_With\_Words](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weird_with_words/32/385_2.png) [@Weird\_With\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_With_Words)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/42 "2004-03-16T03:01:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Sam says: > This story has legs. > [@cheddarsnax](#): > > [Drudge Reports.](http://drudgereport.com/kerrybo.htm) And with a devestating sweeper kick, the story falls on it’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/43 "2004-03-16T03:03:17Z")
Well, isn’t that interesting (if true). Any bets on how long it will be before someone is in here saying that _The Boston Globe_ is a liberal New England newspaper and Patrick Healy’s retraction of the “foreign leaders” thing is an obvious lie to get a New England liberal favored by the paper out of a dilemma. As an aside, those who live by Drudge will also die by Drudge. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/44 "2004-03-16T03:04:18Z")
“I think Kerry will win. [I want Kerry to win.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1166063,00.html)” –José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero (Spain’s newly elected leader) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/45 "2004-03-16T03:08:12Z")
**elucidator:** Actually, you’re wrong. I’ve been E-mailed by several professors who have nobel prizes who have said, “elucidator doesn’t know what he’s talking about”. Of course, I’m not going to tell you who they are, because the conversations were private. But they have Nobels, so you can’t possibly be right. Case closed. How do you think that claim would fly on the SDMB? Why should anyone let a Presidential candidate get away with something like that? It was a stupid thing for Kerry to say, and it was even dumber for him not to correct it as early as he possibly could. This shows a certain lack of judgement on his part - just as his going around telling citizens that the administration is full of liars and crooks, and then refusing to apologize for it when his hand is caught in the cookie jar. Both of those issues could have died quiet deaths, but so far Kerry had handled them both extremely poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/46 "2004-03-16T03:10:06Z")
**cheddarsnax:** And this is exactly why Kerry should name those names. Because somehow, I think the endorsement of the new socialist leader of Spain who was elected on a promise to back out of a U.S. led coalition is not exactly an advantage in a U.S. election. I’ll bet you Kerry doesn’t play up that particular ‘endorsement’. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/47 "2004-03-16T03:18:20Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The administration today demanded that Kerry name these ‘foreign leaders’. He has refused. > > I can’t believe you guys are going to toe the partisan line that this isn’t an issue. Because I know damned well that if Bush came out and said, “I’ve met with foreign leaders who tell me that they hope I am re-elected because they have grave doubts about John Kerry,” you guys would be the first to demand that he name names. And if he came back and said, “I’m not going to tell you”, you’d roast him for it. > > It’s a sleazy tactic. By claiming you have the support of unnamed ‘foreign leaders’ and refusing to name them, you make it impossible for the other side to rebut. > > If Kerry keeps saying things like this, and then refusing to back up his assertions with evidence, he’s going to be labelled a dissembler and a liar, and he’ll damned well deserve it. He wouldn’t get away with that crap on the SDMB without a cite, and I fail to see why he should get away with it in a presidental election. Whenever I see posts like this by you, I have to point out that for those that don’t know that you are a Canadian citizen who lives up in Alberta. I think in the spirit of full-disclosure, that you should note this information when making posts criticizing our politics. I really don’t understand your fervor concerning our politics or who we decide to pick for President. You don’t have to live under either of them. Now if we decide to attack Canada and make states out of it, that would be a different issue \. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/48 "2004-03-16T03:24:21Z")
Yeah, whatever. Tell you what - why don’t you go through the political threads in this forum, and make the same request of all the other non-U.S. citizens? Because the majority of them are on your side. Or better yet, let’s drop the ad hominem attacks and address the issues. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/49 "2004-03-16T03:30:53Z")
Australian here, still care about US politics. We’re your 53rd state, remember. And I’m kinda on your side, as long as you don’t tell all us “foreigners” to not discuss US politics. We have the right to say whatever the heck we want about your politics, and you have the right to say what you want about ours. Feel free to call our PM an asshat or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/50 "2004-03-16T03:33:46Z")
Well, gee, **Sam** , I’m not really sure if “outing” your Canadanity is really an _attack_. I mean, we all pretty much knew about it, didn’t see any reason to throw it up to you all the time. Somebody has to do it, right? ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_With\_Words](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weird_with_words/32/385_2.png) [@Weird\_With\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_With_Words)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/51 "2004-03-16T03:37:10Z")
Gotta side with **Citizen Sam** on this one. That showed a remarkable lack of class there, **iamme99**. For instance, if it appears that Minnesota will not be a battle-ground state, am I thereby obliged to keep my opinion of the president to myself, since my opinion won’t have any effect? Besides, I have a higher citizenship to answer to, a citizenship that you and **Sam** presumably share, and that’s the Republic of Earth. Yo yo yo, muthafuckas! Spaceship Earth, in da house! Represent! ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_With\_Words](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weird_with_words/32/385_2.png) [@Weird\_With\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_With_Words)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/52 "2004-03-16T03:40:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Somebody has to do it, right? Do what? Be Canadian? I don’t see why… Kidding, kidding! I love you cute 'lil fellas! ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/53 "2004-03-16T03:53:53Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Yeah, whatever. Tell you what - why don’t you go through the political threads in this forum, and make the same request of all the other non-U.S. citizens? Because the majority of them are on your side. > > Or better yet, let’s drop the ad hominem attacks and address the issues. > [@lambchops](#): > > Australian here, still care about US politics. We’re your 53rd state, remember. > > And I’m kinda on your side, as long as you don’t tell all us “foreigners” to not discuss US politics. We have the right to say whatever the heck we want about your politics, and you have the right to say what you want about ours. Feel free to call our PM an asshat or whatever. It’s not a personal attack Sam. And don’t try to throw hyperbole BS back at me, It doesn’t do anything for me. Personally, I know nothing about Canadian (or Australian) politics and even if I did, I would be embarrassed to tell someone in another country who they should elect or how they should run their country on the political side. I’m just very curious as to why you have such deep interest in our political process, enough so that you would make 3 fairly strident posts on this issue in this one thread alone. Are you snowed in or something up there? \ People come and go here. Some may know where many people are from or what their agendas are. Others might not. I just think it would be fair and balanced to all if you aren’t a citizen but choose to comment on our politics, that you note your residency. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/54 "2004-03-16T03:56:36Z")
The reason why Bush et al. are flogging this dead horse so hard (hell, **Sam Stone** here seems to have a cattle prod and a hard-on about it), is that four years ago their guy was asked to “Name the foreign leaders.” He couldn’t do it then, so they want to see Kerry in the same position. Hey, were there 16 words in Kerry’s comment, too? I wonder how Bush would do these days on the name the foreign leaders quiz. Maybe, if I get into one of those town hall type debates, I’ll have to ask this one, instead of asking him to figure out the circumference of a circle. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/55 "2004-03-16T03:57:25Z")
> [@Weird With Words](#): > > Do what? Be Canadian? I don’t see why… > > Kidding, kidding! I love you cute 'lil fellas! I like how the tops of their head come off when they talk. I’m glad that they apologized for Brian Adams. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/56 "2004-03-16T04:17:43Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > This shows a certain lack of judgement on his part - just as his going around telling citizens that the administration is full of liars and crooks, and then refusing to apologize for it when his hand is caught in the cookie jar. What’s he supposed to apologize for? Excessive honesty? I suppose that is sort of a crime in our current 1984ish world where lies are truth, cronyism is morality, … ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/57 "2004-03-16T04:24:20Z")
And again the media was involved in manufacturing a story that shoudn’t be there in the first place, because someone in the media messed up. This is getting ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/58 "2004-03-16T04:37:45Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > **elucidator:** This shows a certain lack of judgement on his part - just as his going around telling citizens that the administration is full of liars and crooks, and then refusing to apologize for it when his hand is caught in the cookie jar. Why on earth should John Kerry have to apologize for telling the truth? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/59 "2004-03-16T06:38:45Z")
Oh yeah. I forgot I was dealing with revealed wisdom. Bush’s criminal guilt is beyond question. Therefore, it is perfectly okay to call someone a crook without offering, say, evidence. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2004, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/60 "2004-03-16T07:31:00Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Bush’s criminal guilt is beyond question. Of course it is. Unless you’re proposing we forget the whole Iraq-war-Saddam’s-WMD-stockpiles bit… (And if lying to start an unprovoked war isn’t a criminal act, then what is?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908.md?page=4)