# Kerry Credibility Problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908 "2004-03-12T15:44:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![YPOD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e99b99/32.png) [@YPOD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YPOD)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/101 "2004-03-19T14:15:09Z")
I think it is possible that by foreign leaders, Kerry may have been referring to “opposition leaders,” and not those currently in power. So maybe he did meet or speak to whoever in England or Poland, and they said they supported him. To us in the general public, we would only recognize whoever the current head of state is as a “leader,” and not the wannabees. I think it was a mistake, since REAL AMERICANS don’t like any foriegners. It looks like Kerry realized this slip, and tried to correct it with his request for no endorsements ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/102 "2004-03-19T14:48:52Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > \>As far who the unknown foreign leaders are, they’d be pretty much every single > \>one of them apart from Sharon, Blair and Howard. It’s pretty obvious isn’t it? > \>Even to a foreigner like you? > > Then why did Schroeder (sp?) and the Australian president, among others, deny having said anything? Claims like “everyone except for a couple of insignificant countries supports me” requires some sort of proof, doncha think? I guess I’d respond better to this if I had some kind of idea what you were talking about. Who do you mean by “Australian president”? There’s no such animal, but there is an Australian Prime Minister, whose name is John Howard. That’s the same Howard as in the “Sharon, Blair and Howard” bit that you quoted. And I really can’t understand what you mean by “deny having said anything”. Said anything about what? And whoever apart from you claimed that Israel, the UK and Australia were insignificant? IOW, WTF are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/103 "2004-03-19T20:06:54Z")
**Sam Stone** touched on this, but let me bring this point more to the forefront: KERRY WAS MISQUOTED. From the[March 16 New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/16/politics/campaign/16POOL.html) (registration required): > [@](#): > > Patrick Healy, the Boston Globe reporter who covered the fund-raiser, had quoted Mr. Kerry as saying: “I’ve met foreign leaders who can’t go out and say this publicly, but, boy, they look at you and say, `You have got to win this; you have got to beat this guy; we need a new policy.’ Things like that.” > > Mr. Kerry said on Sunday that he had used the word “heard,” not “met,” prompting Mr. Healy to revisit the recording. On Monday, he sent out a corrected transcript, clarifying that the quotation actually began, “I’ve met **more** leaders who can’t go out and say it all publicly.” _(emphasis mine)_. > > . . . . > > Stephanie Cutter, Mr. Kerry’s spokeswoman, said the campaign did not raise questions about the accuracy of the quotation amid days of criticism because there was a problem with its tape recorder, making the word inaudible. > > Mr. Healy also said it was difficult to hear the word on his recorder, particularly when he was transcribing between campaign events aboard a bus and an airplane. Over reporters’ objections, campaigns frequently limit access to events, requiring the press corps to rely on one or two journalists’ versions. > > Senator Kerry never denied making the statement, but he refused repeated calls — including one from Secretary of State Colin L. Powell on Fox News Sunday — to identify the foreign leaders. So this does make one wonder about Kerry’s reaction. My personal thought is that if this whole thing hinges on one word, who can remember every word he or she spoke on a certain day, especially if s/he’s a politician on the campaign trail? ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/104 "2004-03-19T22:27:43Z")
Kerry is right! He both did and didn’t talk and did and didn’t meet with foreigners during the last few years… He communicated. **\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ ()\_\_\_\_\_\_\_** > [@](#): > > The Chosun Ilbo (South Korea) March 18 2004 > \*\*Senator John Kerry \*\* > > _Possible Democratic Party Presidential Candidate John Kerry and the Korean Buddhist martial art of Shim Gum Do._ > > Although the two might not appear to go together, a certain karma has been developing between them for the last 10 years. Kerry is very close to Shim Gum Do’s founder, Zen Master Kim Chang-sik, and has been a very strong supporter of Kim’s activities in the United States. They exchange letters once a month to exchange views on Zen and spiritual discipline, and meet whenever the need arises. > Just to give you an example of how close the two are, when Kerry’s father passed away in 2000, he secluded himself at home to console his grief-stricken mother. He met with no one. No one, that is, except Zen Master Kim, whom it’s said he met even then. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/105 "2004-03-20T01:47:28Z")
So, so far the majors charges against Kerry by the Bush campaign are two blantant and outrageous lies about his voting record, and a misquote that later went on to be supported with evasive equivocation about what Kerry was talking about when asked about foriegn leaders. Am I supposed to be impressed with this? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/106 "2004-03-20T02:53:25Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > So, so far the majors charges against Kerry by the Bush campaign are two blantant and outrageous lies about his voting record, and a misquote that later went on to be supported with evasive equivocation about what Kerry was talking about when asked about foriegn leaders. Am I supposed to be impressed with this? What you have to understand is that Mr. Rove’s mud throwing machine is at least into second gear and in earnest pursuit of a tactic to keep Senator Kerry under such a barrage of accusations, criticisms and cheap shots that the Democratic campaign spends all its money responding and never has a chance to get on message. In the mean time, our President and the boys are running around all the safe venues (expect a lot of speeches to returning military formations and mass shouting of Hoo-ha) claiming that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was all about terrorism and setting up a bastion of Western (Liberal?) Democracy in the Middle East, and that we never really said that there were weapons of mass destruction over there, just that we thought that there was a fair chance that some day there might be, and once the Security Counsel would not give us a sanction we had to go in just to prove who was in charge around here. The other thing going on here is that the President and the boys are counting on the voting public having the memory of a Halloween pumpkin. It doesn’t matter if the stuff being thrown around is accurate, relevant or material. What counts is that if enough stuff is thrown some of it will stick. Remember the polls that say that something like half the public thinks we did indeed find WMDs in Iraq. The American people will probably not buy a single big lie, but a whole bunch of little lies will confuse the bejabers out of them. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/107 "2004-03-20T03:11:06Z")
> [@Milum](#): > > Kerry is right! He both did and didn’t talk and did and didn’t meet with foreigners during the last few years… > He communicated. **\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ ()\_\_\_\_\_\_\_** > [@](#): > > The Chosun Ilbo (South Korea) March 18 2004 > Senator John Kerry > > Possible Democratic Party Presidential Candidate John Kerry and the Korean Buddhist martial art of Shim Gum Do. > > Although the two might not appear to go together, a certain karma has been developing between them for the last 10 years. Kerry is very close to Shim Gum Do’s founder, Zen Master Kim Chang-sik, and has been a very strong supporter of Kim’s activities in the United States. They exchange letters once a month to exchange views on Zen and spiritual discipline, and meet whenever the need arises. > Just to give you an example of how close the two are, when Kerry’s father passed away in 2000, he secluded himself at home to console his grief-stricken mother. He met with no one. No one, that is, except Zen Master Kim, whom it’s said he met even then. Do they meet for a tea leaf reading? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/108 "2004-03-20T03:12:05Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > What you have to understand is that Mr. Rove’s mud throwing machine is at least into second gear and in earnest pursuit of a tactic to keep… Still, Rove and company have proven adept at generating gaffs for their own team. This latest one: [Bush-Cheney to sell only U.S. goods](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&e=2&u=/nm/20040319/pl_nm/campaign_bush_myanmar_dc) is hilarious, and likely to hurt Bush with people who are worried about jobs, or dislike the idea of American politicians supporting oppresive regimes. > [@](#): > > The Bush-Cheney re-election campaign has vowed to sell only American-made goods following a report its official merchandise Web site sold some clothing made in Mexico and Burma. > Newsday reported Friday that a shipment of campaign goods it received included a Burmese-made fleece pullover and a T-shirt made in Mexico. > President George W. Bush signed an executive order in July banning imports from Burma, now Myanmar, because of its dismal human rights record. What’s more, outsourcing to all foreign countries has been a sensitive campaign topic in a year when job growth has been scarce. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/109 "2004-03-20T03:20:13Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > So this does make one wonder about Kerry’s reaction. My personal thought is that if this whole thing hinges on one word, who can remember every word he or she spoke on a certain day, especially if s/he’s a politician on the campaign trail? Hmmm - A single word can greatly change the meaning of an entire comunication. This type of “I said or meant to say” trait could have dire consequences in a tense situation. Kerry has been in public office long enough to know he has to be careful what he says and to whom, so I’m not buying that theory. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/110 "2004-03-20T04:14:40Z")
Let’s face it - John Kerry had a terrible week. The ‘liars and crooks’ comment did not go over well with the public. The foreign leaders thing was a disaster. The wonkish, “I voted for the 87 billion dollars, just before I voted against it” made him sound like an idiot. In fact, he did so poorly this week that he’s been pulled off the campaign for a ‘vacation’ to get the heat off him. And on his first day of vacation, he screwed that up, too. Today he went snowboarding. He told reporters that he “Never Falls”. Then he proceeded to collide with a secret service agent. No big deal so far, but reportedly Kerry got up and said, “The son of a bitch ran into me.” That’s not going to play well either, and he’d better hope no one pays attention to that one. Kerry supporters better hope this week is an aberration, because he’s not off to a good start. And he’s lost almost 10 percentage points to Bush in the last ten days. And Rove and Co. haven’t even pulled out the big guns against him yet. They haven’t attacked his liberal voting record, his flip-flop on free trade, on the Patriot act, and other issues. This is going to be a long election, and Kerry is going up against maybe the best political machine the U.S. has seen in decades. Bush has liabilities, but you’ve still got to call Kerry a big underdog. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/111 "2004-03-20T04:33:54Z")
A painful admission, I’m sure, **Sam**. One cannot fail to notice the woeful, solemn gravity with which you outline Sen. Kerry’s dreadful gaffes, how poorly it reflects on the character of one who must campaign against the Shining One, whose record of candor and straightforwardness is so entirely unblemished. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/112 "2004-03-20T04:51:36Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > This is going to be a long election, and Kerry is going up against maybe the best political machine the U.S. has seen in decades. Bush has liabilities, but you’ve still got to call Kerry a big underdog. Yes, it will be a long election cycle. And sadly, we’re probably going to have to listen to you, a Canadian citizen, rant on about our politics and election for the whole time. :rolleyes: I sure hope the weather improves up there in Alberta so you can get out and focus on something else, like maybe exercising something other than you fingers. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/113 "2004-03-20T05:10:43Z")
So are you saying “foreign leaders” opinions are welcome but Sam’s are not? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/114 "2004-03-20T05:12:16Z")
> [@iamme99](#): > > And sadly, we’re probably going to have to listen to you, a Canadian citizen, rant on about our politics and election for the whole time. Nice little _ad hominem_. If that’s all you have to offer, I’ll take a Canuck anyday. 🙂 Maybe when the subscription policy kicks in, you can lobby for country flags to be required on everyone’s tag. Sheesh… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/115 "2004-03-20T05:20:03Z")
**elucidator** said: > [@](#): > > A painful admission, I’m sure, Sam. One cannot fail to notice the woeful, solemn gravity with which you outline Sen. Kerry’s dreadful gaffes, how poorly it reflects on the character of one who must campaign against the Shining One, whose record of candor and straightforwardness is so entirely unblemished. Yeah, about like the way you arrive in threads with a gloomy demeanor, hands wringing, when you have to sorrowfully announce a Bush gaffe. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/116 "2004-03-20T07:07:27Z")
Somehow, having **Sam Stone** tell us about the status of Kerry’s campaign is akin to having O.J. Simpson be a character witness for Lou and Juditha Brown. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/117 "2004-03-20T07:24:14Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > So are you saying “foreign leaders” opinions are welcome but Sam’s are not? Where did I say that? ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/118 "2004-03-20T07:25:27Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Somehow, having **Sam Stone** tell us about the status of Kerry’s campaign is akin to having O.J. Simpson be a character witness for Lou and Juditha Brown. :rolleyes: 😃😃😃 Great analogy R.J.! ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/119 "2004-03-20T07:27:01Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Nice little _ad hominem_. If that’s all you have to offer, I’ll take a Canuck anyday. 🙂 > > Maybe when the subscription policy kicks in, you can lobby for country flags to be required on everyone’s tag. Sheesh… Darn. That’s a great idea! Wish I had thought of it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908/120 "2004-03-20T14:52:57Z")
**Chosun Ilbo (South Korean Newspaper):** Possible Democratic Party Presidential Candidate John Kerry and the Korean Buddhist martial art of Shim Gum Do. Although the two might not appear to go together, a certain karma has been developing between them for the last 10 years. Kerry is very close to Shim Gum Do’s founder, Zen Master Kim Chang-sik, and has been a very strong supporter of Kim’s activities in the United States. They exchange letters once a month to exchange views on Zen and spiritual discipline, and meet whenever the need arises. Just to give you an example of how close the two are, when Kerry’s father passed away in 2000, he secluded himself at home to console his grief-stricken mother. He met with no one. No one, that is, except Zen Master Kim, whom it’s said he met even then. \*\*Flickster: \*\*Do they meet for a tea leaf reading? \*\*Milum: \*\* Maybeso, _Flickster_ , we could ask his campaign people. It’s a fair question. I think the American people have a right to know if he is exchanging views on spiritual matters with a zen master or not. Maybe Kerry is trying to convert Kim Chang-sik to Catholicism. Maybe all rich people converse monthly with zen masters. Who knows? But one thing is pretty much for sure; we the American people will never know the truth of whether or not Kerry consults with zen-masters. But it does seems that either the venerable Korean newspaper _Chosun Ilbo_ is lying or Kerry does chat regularly with Master Kim. Mmmm? Oh what the hell, I’ll just assume he does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-credibility-problem/233908.md?page=7)