# Kerry Democrats....what would it take to give up on Kerry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432 "2004-04-28T04:09:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/81 "2004-05-01T17:37:40Z")
I realize that this thread is not _only_ about Iraq, but what do you Kerry voters think of the following? [http://www.lewrockwell.com/spectator/spec270.html](http://www.lewrockwell.com/spectator/spec270.html) > [@](#): > > Bush and Kerry agree on almost everything in foreign policy, but where they disagree, Kerry is more hawkish. (…) > > John Kerry has tried to give off a reassuringly multilateralist aura, and he says Bush has alienated America’s allies. This may be why some people believe him to be less of a warmonger. But they are wrong. (…) Kerry himself vigorously rejects the idea that US military action can be subject to a UN veto. (…) > > Kerry is actually more hawkish than Bush about the threat from Islam in general, and about Saudi Arabia in particular. … My own opinion on the current situation in Iraq has softened a bit over the past year but one thing I have maintained all the time: get the occupying troops outta there - GET OUT, OR GET KICKED OUT. Judged on this issue, Kerry has been consistently worse than Bush (calling for more troops etc.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/82 "2004-05-01T18:01:56Z")
> [@](#): > > John Kerry has tried to give off a reassuringly multilateralist aura, and he says Bush has alienated America’s allies. This may be why some people believe him to be less of a warmonger. But they are wrong. (…) Kerry himself vigorously rejects the idea that US military action can be subject to a UN veto. (…) My initial thought is…hm, maybe Kerry isn’t so bad after all. At least as far as this aspect goes, if your cite is accurate and if Kerry really feels this way, he seems to align pretty well with me. If his thoughts on trade and the economy were closer to what I consider important, I’d probably vote for him. As it is, maybe Kerry as president won’t be as bad as what I was thinking… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/83 "2004-05-01T18:58:56Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > I realize that this thread is not _only_ about Iraq, but what do you Kerry voters think of the following? > > [http://www.lewrockwell.com/spectator/spec270.html](http://www.lewrockwell.com/spectator/spec270.html) > > My own opinion on the current situation in Iraq has softened a bit over the past year but one thing I have maintained all the time: get the occupying troops outta there - GET OUT, OR GET KICKED OUT. Judged on this issue, Kerry has been consistently worse than Bush (calling for more troops etc.) We probably do need more troops in Iraq if we want to maintain order. As much as many liberals (and most Iraqis for that matter) want us the hell out of there, it would be irresponsible to just suddenly leave. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/84 "2004-05-01T19:28:58Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > **As much as many liberals** (and most Iraqis for that matter) \*\*want us the hell out of there, \*\*it would be irresponsible to just suddenly leave. I am tempted to respond to the second part of this statement (not surprisingly, I disagree) but I guess that’s a matter for a different thread. However, the bolded part is interesting. If this is a fair description of " many liberals’ " position (and it does seem that way) then I would expect a more negative view or Kerry. Or is it really a matter of [holding one’s nose](http://www.lefthook.org/Politics/AlamChomsky020404.html) ? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/85 "2004-05-01T20:01:30Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > However, the bolded part is interesting. If this is a fair description of " many liberals’ " position (and it does seem that way) then I would expect a more negative view or Kerry. Or is it really a matter of [holding one’s nose](http://www.lefthook.org/Politics/AlamChomsky020404.html) ? Well, personally, I don’t think it is. What I want is that we learn from our mistakes so this sort of thing doesn’t happen again. But, I pretty much subscribe to Colin Powell’s point-of-view as reported in the press in regards to Woodward’s book (I don’t think it is necessarily an exact quote): “You broke it, you own it.” I think it would be irresponsible for the U.S. to cut-and-run now and would insure that the worst outcomes come to pass. On the other hand, I do think we should as much as possible try to turn over sovereignty to the Iraqis as quickly as feasible and to get the U.N. involved …although I wouldn’t blame many of the nations there from not wanting to touch this with a ten-foot pole. And, realistically, the U.S. is probably the only country that I can envision playing a major role that has enough troops to (try to) manage the situation there. It would also be nice if Bush were to explain that he is increasing the top income tax rate back up some so that the war gets paid for…And, by those most able rather than least able to afford it. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/86 "2004-05-01T23:26:06Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > I realize that this thread is not _only_ about Iraq, but what do you Kerry voters think of the following? As long as he keeps his wars to _valid_ and _justified_ ones (none of this cherry-picking of intelligence data crap), that’s okay by me. It’s like most martial arts – don’t go out and start a fight, but don’t hesitate to stop one if you’re being attacked. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/87 "2004-05-02T00:20:21Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I really don’t understand the few people who are still on the fence with Bush. He is so wildly on one side of the fence that I just can’t see how you can be “iffy” about him. As one of those fence sitters, I can respond. It’s hard for me to find a reason to vote for either of them. Both Have big things I disagree with, both have a problem with changing positions on issues and I don’t particulary like either. However, I don’t have the “Hate Bush” reason that many do. That may be inexplicable to many, or proof of any number of perceptions about myself(few of them good), I have yet to see anything that has caused me to hate the man. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/88 "2004-05-02T00:37:15Z")
Noam Chomsky throws hat in ring… ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/89 "2004-05-02T06:46:46Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > I am tempted to respond to the second part of this statement (not surprisingly, I disagree) but I guess that’s a matter for a different thread. > > However, the bolded part is interesting. If this is a fair description of " many liberals’ " position (and it does seem that way) then I would expect a more negative view or Kerry. Or is it really a matter of [holding one’s nose](http://www.lefthook.org/Politics/AlamChomsky020404.html) ? Let’s just say it’s not an unheard of viewpoint amongst leftist thinkers. Editorial Columnist Ted Rall, for instance ([Cut and Run Now](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&ncid=748&e=4&u=/uclicktext/20040408/cm_ucru/cutandrunnow)). Ohio Congressman [Dennis Kucinich](http://www.kucinich.us/issues/iraq.php) also advocates getting our troops home. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/90 "2004-05-02T07:41:23Z")
Someone on the board in another thread said he would vote for something scraped off his shoe before he would vote for Bush. He expressed my sentiments exactly. I was a Dean supporter, but Kerry is just fine with me. What could Kerry do to change my vote? Hmmm… Kerry could break into my house, steal my credit cards, rape my SO and take my car and I would still vote for him over Bush. So I guess the answer is, nothing. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/91 "2004-05-02T22:18:19Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Someone on the board in another thread said he would vote for something scraped off his shoe before he would vote for Bush. > > He expressed my sentiments exactly. > > I was a Dean supporter, but Kerry is just fine with me. > > What could Kerry do to change my vote? > > Hmmm… > > Kerry could break into my house, steal my credit cards, rape my SO and take my car and I would still vote for him over Bush. > > So I guess the answer is, nothing. to paraphrase the archaic (and originally homophobic formulation), they could find him in bed with a live sheep or a dead girl… ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/92 "2004-05-06T03:44:15Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > Noam Chomsky throws hat in ring… Hey, what’s wrong with Chomsky? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/93 "2004-05-06T04:05:16Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Hey, what’s wrong with Chomsky? 🆒 that was my answer to what it would take to put me off kerry. For that matter, I supose if Bob Dylan threw his hat in the ring, that’d work too. Or Warren Beatty. Anyone with a heart and half a brain who can get elected. And a pulse. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/94 "2004-05-06T04:10:14Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Hey, what’s wrong with Chomsky? 🆒 Hat size fifteen and three-eighths. Outside of that, nothing. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/95 "2004-05-06T04:28:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Hat size fifteen and three-eighths. Outside of that, nothing. sure. but in Noam’s case, the hat size is required because of the large brain cavity. ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/96 "2004-05-06T10:33:27Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > that was my answer to what it would take to put me off kerry. I first thought you meant that Chomsky _had_ thrown hat in ring. [These guys](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/chom-a05.shtml) at the World Socialist Web Site (fav site of mine) are mightly critical of Chomsky (more accurately, of Chomsky’s support for Kerry). Also worth reading is [their replies to their critics](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/chom-a17.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/97 "2004-05-07T23:56:41Z")
> [@Frankenstein Monster](#): > > I first thought you meant that Chomsky _had_ thrown hat in ring. > > [These guys](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/chom-a05.shtml) at the World Socialist Web Site (fav site of mine) are mightly critical of Chomsky (more accurately, of Chomsky’s support for Kerry). Also worth reading is [their replies to their critics](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/chom-a17.shtml). Assuming that noam fails on item 3 of my criteria, (electability), could we rush through the Swarzeneggar Amendment, so Teresa can run for Prez–she 's way cooler than John., (kinda like Linda Edwards is a serious credit to John… I only saw her once or twice, but she could well be the brains of the Edwards family…) Don’t know the site, but kerry is appalling on class issues (quelle surprize…). It is no doubt a source of great amusement in dialectical heaven that the only hope of the working class in america is guys like teddy k and john corzine… ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432/98 "2004-05-08T07:03:41Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > There is absolutely nothing which will prevent me from voting for whoever has the best chance unseat Bush. If something truly repugnant came up about Kerry (like he confessed to being the Zodiak killer or something) he would be replaced on the Democrat ticket and I would still vote for that ticket. My vote is purely anti-Bush. You took the words right out of my… umm… keyboard. It’s not that I’m going to vote for Kerry, I’m voting AGAINST Bush with the person most likely to beat him. If I thought Ralph would have a chance, he’d get my vote. Hell, if I thought Mel Carnahan\* had a chance at the Presidency I’d be voting for him. \*If you don’t recall, Mel Carnahan was the dead guy who beat John Ashcroft in Missouri’s 2000 Senate race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-democrats-what-would-it-take-to-give-up-on-kerry/242432.md?page=4)