# Kerry: Just as bad a student as Bush
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [June 7, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324 "2005-06-07T17:50:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/1 "2005-06-07T17:50:17Z")
From the Associated Press today:
> [@](#):
>
> Sen. John F. Kerry’s grade average at Yale University was virtually identical to President Bush’s record there, despite repeated portrayals of Kerry as the more intellectual candidate during the 2004 presidential campaign. . .
>
> Kerry had a cumulative average of 76 and got four Ds his freshman year — in geology, two history courses and political science, _The Boston Globe_ reported Tuesday. . . .
>
> In 1999, _The New Yorker_ magazine published a transcript showing Bush had a cumulative grade average of 77 his first three years at Yale, and a similar average under a non-numerical rating system his senior year.
Thought I’d toss this out as red meat for all you Bush bashers and Kerry bashers. And to give hope to all you who just got by in college.
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### Author:  [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/2 "2005-06-07T17:53:41Z")
So what’s the debate?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/3 "2005-06-07T17:57:27Z")
> [@Walloon](#):
>
> Thought I’d toss this out as red meat for all you Bush bashers and Kerry bashers. And to give hope to all you who just got by in college.
Yeah, now all I need is a rich, blue-blooded family.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/4 "2005-06-07T17:59:42Z")
Oh, all sorts of debate are possible here. The debate over whether college grades are truly indicative of one’s intelligence, whether media bias enters into the common portrayal of Kerry as much smarter than Bush, whether one’s intelliegence level is fixed or progressive in adulthood.
Now I’ll close the cage as I exit.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/5 "2005-06-07T18:01:26Z")
And of course, I misspell “intelligence” in the process.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/6 "2005-06-07T18:01:52Z")
> [@Walloon](#):
>
> The debate over … whether media bias enters into the common portrayal of Kerry as much smarter than Bush
The AP’s lead for the piece was “Sen. John F. Kerry’s grade average at Yale University was virtually identical to President Bush’s record there, despite repeated portrayals of Kerry as the more intellectual candidate during the 2004 presidential campaign.” I thought that was pretty crappy work.
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### Author:  [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/7 "2005-06-07T18:09:46Z")
So what? I know many people who through sheer force of will and lots of work did quite well in college. I’ve also known other very intelligent people that did very little but coasted with slightly above average scores. The most intelligent person I know got a very average degree.
Bush was painted as a lightweight in the head stakes coz that’s how he came across. He didn’t know or forgot important people’s names, he stumbled and even froze when asked some questions. His in your face man of the people works for a lot but also jars with a lot of people.
Kerry seemed confident, articulate and well briefed, Bush generally didn’t IMO and the opinion of a lot of observers, even relatively unbiased ones.
It didn’t lose him the election though and that ultimately is the most important thing.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/8 "2005-06-07T18:13:04Z")
Quite honestly, what difference does it make NOW?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/9 "2005-06-07T18:13:17Z")
Media bias? I doubt it. Presumably both men have learned a lot since their college days, so I don’t see that grades are all that relavent. Bush got dinged mainly because he is a poor public speaker, not so much that he’s “not smart”. I think many people, not necessarily the press, make the jump from “poor public speaker” to “not smart” themselves.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/10 "2005-06-07T18:15:29Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> Bush got dinged mainly because he is a poor public speaker, not so much that he’s “not smart”. I think many people, not necessarily the press, make the jump from “poor public speaker” to “not smart” themselves.
I think that’s right. It’s a matter of their presentation, demeanor, articulation, and so on. Some people knew Bush was a C+ student in college, but most didn’t. If you think he’s dumb, it’s very unlikely that’s the reason.
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### Author:  [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/11 "2005-06-07T18:42:30Z")
After all, being dumb is but one of numerous different reason why someone gets poor grades. I’ve known plenty of very intelligent people who received poor grades because they were distracted, disinterested, preoccupied with familial or personal crises, etc. I am now a college professor and have even given well-justified failing grades to students who are without a doubt very talented and even brilliant.
It is Bush’s affected clumsy public persona, maladroit mangling of language, and inability to communicate sophisticated (or even factually accurate) thoughts that led people to conclude he is stupid.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/12 "2005-06-07T19:04:01Z")
All this shows to me is that Bush squandered whatever academic talents he may have had.
> [@](#):
>
> It is Bush’s affected clumsy public persona, maladroit mangling of language, and inability to communicate sophisticated (or even factually accurate) thoughts that led people to conclude he is stupid.
His actions aren’t indicative of a very deep and subtle thought process either, IMO.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/13 "2005-06-07T19:11:20Z")
hmmm?
No thesis to debate.
Not much ranting beyond some low-grade sniping.
This would seem to be almost a poll of views, more suited to **IMHO**
[/Moderator Mode]
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### Author:  [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/14 "2005-06-07T19:30:03Z")
1. A bad student can be a excellent president (Kerry)
2. A bad student can be a…president (Bush)
(complete the sentence according to your conviction)
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/15 "2005-06-07T19:41:21Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#):
>
> 1. A bad student can (almost) be president (Kerry)
> 2. A bad student can be president (Bush)
>
> (complete the sentence according to your conviction)
Not much to argue, really.
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### Author:  [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/16 "2005-06-07T19:45:23Z")
Huh? What?
:: Looks around, startled, wondering how he just slipped back into 2004 ::
What _is_ Kerry up to nowadays, anyway?
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### Author:  [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/17 "2005-06-07T20:24:46Z")
77? 76? Why can’t Yale use a 4.0 system like everyone else?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/18 "2005-06-08T04:34:23Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#):
>
> Not much to argue, really.
[official moderator warning]Do NOT modify the quotes of other posters.[/official moderator warning]
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### Author:  [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/19 "2005-06-08T05:33:48Z")
OK, let’s assume that good grades are correlated above average intelligence. But since when has intelligence correlated with being a good president? Some our worse presidents had high IQs, and vice versa.
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### Author:  [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2005, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-as-bad-a-student-as-bush/307324/20 "2005-06-08T07:59:43Z")
Do you have a cite for that, nivlac? I agree with you in principle, but have most of our presidents even taken IQ tests? How do we know what their IQs were?
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