# Kerry just excommunicated from the Catholic Church? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901 "2004-10-18T21:11:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/21 "2004-10-19T03:33:17Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > Here’s the article from _The New York Times_ adding a little information. My guess is that while theoretically Kerry could be excommunicated, the church would never do it. If they did, then to be consistent they’d have to excommunicate all politicans who are Catholic worldwide who supported abortion rights to be consistent. This would be just too controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/22 "2004-10-19T03:45:00Z")
Related thread from July: [Kerry Charged with heresy for communion.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=265253) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/23 "2004-10-19T07:16:36Z")
According to [this blog](http://mywebpages.comcast.net/enpeters/blog.htm), the “consultant to the Vatican” objects to the way his letter is being used, and denies that it has the signficance attributed to it. > [@](#): > > Several weeks ago, Fr. DiNoia, the undersecretary for the Congregation of Doctrine and Faith, asked me to communicate with Marc Balestrieri about a question concerning abortion, excommunication and the like. I was neither delegated by the Congregation to speak for it, nor was I in any sense a “consultor” to the Congregation. I was simply someone trying to help someone understand the gravity of the evil of abortion and the possible penalties associated by formally and publically teaching that abortion was not per se a grave sin. Both Fr. DiNoia and I assumed that the person was a student wanting to understand the Church’s teaching. I was told he was seeking to do a JCD degree by the person in question. Neither Fr. DiNoia nor I had any knowledge that he was going to “go after” Kerry or any other Catholic figure for their public stance concerning the evil of abortion. So, in my letter to Marc Balestrieri, I began by mentioning that my letter is a personal and private opinion to him about anyone who would publically and persistently teach that abortion is not morally prohibited. It in no way is authoritative from the Congregation nor was I representing the Congregation. It’s only weight is that of a priest and a theologian who appeals to sacred sources. I was helping out Fr. DiNoia who asked me to do this for him. Fraternally in St. Dominic, Fr. Basil Cole, OP Unsurprisingly, there’s less in this than meets the eye. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/24 "2004-10-19T08:10:28Z")
I do hope that, AFTER the pedophile priests & their enabling bishops, the RCC does start excommunicating high-profile pro-abortion Catholic politicians. Alas, I won’t hold my breath for either. I know that if Senator Kerry were Assembly of God, we’d have booted him long ago. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/25 "2004-10-19T11:33:42Z")
I didn’t know that, this is very educational. So Sen Kerry is “pro-abortion”? Well, learn something every day! You have some cite on that, someplace where Kerry says “Abortions are really swell! Run right out and get one today!” ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/26 "2004-10-19T14:17:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve said many times before that it’s a rough world for the committed Catholic voter. John Kerry’s stance on abortion is abominable; George Bush’s glee for the death penalty is nothing short of a nightmare. Of the two, Kerry’s positions most closely track with the social justice teachings of the Church – the reason that most Catholics historically have been Democrats. > > - Rick Amen, brother. Too many Catholics seem to focus on abortion, and then proceed to throw the rest of Catholic teaching on social justice, free-market capitalism, and especially the death penalty, right out the window. What’s a Catholic to do? I’ll vote for Kerry, despite my reservations about abortion, because, first, I believe that the law on abortion is not going to fundamentally change no matter who is president (yes, it might be somewhat more difficult to obtain an abortion, in some places and in some circumstances, if Bush is elected, but legal abortion isn’t going anywhere in this country), and second, the way to eliminate (OK, never happen) or at least significantly reduce the number of abortions is to make good education and birth control available absolutely free to every woman (and girl) in the country. But the Church is so unbelievably stupid about birth control that it will never get behind a policy like that, so they’re stuck with abortion as their one and only issue (at the expense of issues where they really could make a difference), and the Church as much as the laity is responsible for the marginalization of Catholic thought as an influence on politics and elections. But the Church is doing Catholics (and the world in general) no favors with its rigid, hidebound thinking. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/27 "2004-10-19T14:41:51Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > As far as I know, Catholicism views the death penalty differently than abortion. It says that the death penalty is wrong in practice, while abortion is intrinsically morally wrong. IIRC, according to the current Pope, the three great moral issues of our time are: Abortion Death Penalty Euthanasia (Though not necessarily in that or any order. All are considered of utmost import) The Church acknowledges that there are times, as a practical matter, when there is no possible other way of dealing with a criminal (for the safety of society) than putting the criminal to death. Those circumstances bear no relation with or resemblance to the United States, where life imprisonment is feasible. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/28 "2004-10-19T14:52:24Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > I know that if Senator Kerry were Assembly of God, we’d have booted him long ago. OTOH, the ELCA, while disapproving of abortion, would not deny someone communion for supporting a woman’s right to choose. And the “state of grace” requirement? Heck, our belief is that sinners need communion more than anybody! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/29 "2004-10-19T15:33:57Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > OTOH, the ELCA, while disapproving of abortion, would not deny someone communion for supporting a woman’s right to choose. And the “state of grace” requirement? Heck, our belief is that sinners need communion more than anybody! CCM requires me to do what I would anyway – and that’s say “I agree” to what you had to say here. As a GQ (and I know it was posted in GD, not GQ), I think **Bricker** ’s response makes the situation pretty clear: there are certain circumstances which incur automatic excommunication – and Kerry has committed none of them. Formalized individual excommunication is a different matter – and nobody with the right to do so has excommunicated Kerry. Somebody’s moving in the church courts that he’s a heretic and deserves excommunication – but that’s only a canon-law equivalent of someone pressing charges in a secular court; their accusation does not automatically convict. AFAIK, that’s all that needs to be said, until and unless someone formally authorized to do so makes a further statement in behalf of the Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/30 "2004-10-20T01:53:17Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Oh come on… This can’t be a serious attempt to have Catholics believe that John Kerry is “excommunicated”, no? > > Please tell me there is no Catholic in the US who is actually going to buy this nonsense and then starts believing that voting for Kerry is a mortal sin? > What about all the other politicians in this world who are Catholic, uet could actually separate their religon from their political mandate? > They must be all “excommunicated”… Poor souls. Maybe I should start mailing a few tens of thousands of copies of Al Qur’an to help them. > > Salaam. A I wasn’t aware abortion’s had become legal under Islamic doctrine. I think you have the right idea. If the Al Qur’an can enlighten Catholics on how to separate personal conviction from their daily lives then God’s speed with your endeavors. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/31 "2004-10-20T15:48:13Z")
[Vatican Says Anti-Kerry Lawyer Hoodwinked Them](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=6&u=/nm/20041020/pl_nm/campaign_kerry_vatican_dc) > [@](#): > > A conservative U.S. lawyer’s attempt to enlist the Vatican in his drive to declare Senator John Kerry a heretic over his abortion views backfired Wednesday when the Holy See said it had been hoodwinked. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/32 "2004-10-20T15:52:55Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > t’s wise to give stories like this, just like stories about WMDs in Iraq, a couple days to age, before getting too excited about them :). Just thought I’d remind you of a little bit of wisdom, **Tiger** :). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/33 "2004-10-20T16:05:11Z")
Procedural question: When a Catholic is excommunicated, is he required to return his possessing-demons to his local diocese, or straight to the Vatican? Or to they just send a priest to his house to repossess them? (Nyuk, nyuk!) Also, is the Church entitled to bill him for any wear and tear? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/34 "2004-10-20T16:31:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Procedural question: When a Catholic is excommunicated, is he required to return his possessing-demons to his local diocese, or straight to the Vatican? Or to they just send a priest to his house to repossess them? (Nyuk, nyuk!) Also, is the Church entitled to bill him for any wear and tear? I’m afraid I don’t get this - except for recognizing the “repossession” pun. If the whole post is a joke, I think the current stand-up comics of the world may rest assured that their livelihoods are not in danger from new competition. Is it some attempt to suggest that an excommunicated person is demon-possessed? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/35 "2004-10-20T16:36:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m afraid I don’t get this - except for recognizing the “repossession” pun. If the whole post is a joke, I think the current stand-up comics of the world may rest assured that their livelihoods are not in danger from new competition. Is it some attempt to suggest that an excommunicated person is demon-possessed? :rolleyes: No, **Bricker,** it is an attempt to suggest that every **Catholic** is demon-possessed. I thought practically everybody on this board had read at least one or two Jack Chick tracts at one time or another. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/36 "2004-10-20T16:46:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: No, **Bricker,** it is an attempt to suggest that every **Catholic** is demon-possessed. I thought practically everybody on this board had read at least one or two Jack Chick tracts at one time or another. That would be like assuming all Florida voters are incapable of using a punch ballot after reading your last post. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/37 "2004-10-20T17:01:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That would be like assuming all Florida voters are incapable of using a punch ballot after reading your last post. 😕 OK, that’s not even meant as a joke, is it? Just a random nonsequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/38 "2004-10-20T17:21:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: No, **Bricker,** it is an attempt to suggest that every **Catholic** is demon-possessed. I thought practically everybody on this board had read at least one or two Jack Chick tracts at one time or another. I don’t want to be the guy that over-analyzes every joke… but I’m familiar with the works of Mr. Chick, and I think he merely posits that the LEADERS of the Catholic Church are managed by demons. Followers are, for the most part, innocent dupes. (See the Murphy on his deathbed tract, for example). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/39 "2004-10-20T17:26:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 OK, that’s not even meant as a joke, is it? Just a random nonsequitur. Not a joke or a non sequiter (FYI, there’s a space in the word). It relates directly to your connection between Jack Chick and Catholics at large. I’m sure Senator Kerry would argue he is not possessed of demons (although his wife says he wakes up dreaming about his days in Vietnam). Just a gentle nudge to someone who stepped in it using boots of humor. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901/40 "2004-10-20T17:55:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t want to be the guy that over-analyzes every joke… but I’m familiar with the works of Mr. Chick, and I think he merely posits that the LEADERS of the Catholic Church are managed by demons. Followers are, for the most part, innocent dupes. (See the Murphy on his deathbed tract, for example). True; I was using artistic license to stretch the point. However, in Chick tracts, all homosexuals **are** possessed by demons. He actually draws them. When two guys kiss, the the demons perched on their heads also kiss. Ah, Jack! What a unique cultural treasure you are! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-just-excommunicated-from-the-catholic-church/269901.md?page=3)