# Kerry picks Edwards as VP. That's it, I'm not voting. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781 "2004-07-06T13:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/41 "2004-07-06T14:55:41Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > The further Kerry moves to the left, the closer he gets to electoral death. If the 100 million voters who didn’t vote in 2000 are all to the right of the Democrats, how come they didn’t vote for Bush? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/42 "2004-07-06T14:59:13Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > Take the war in Iraq, for example. Kerry wants to send more troops, and his plan is to keep them there until 2008. I don’t believe Bush is calling for more troops or for them to stay there that long. Cite? [Countercite](http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/index.html) > [@John Kerry](#): > > I. Make Iraq a Part of NATO’s Global Mission > > NATO is now a global security organization and creating a stable and secure environment in Iraq must be one of its global missions. Every member of NATO has a huge stake in Iraq’s future. NATO agreement to take on this mission should be reached no later than the NATO summit in late June. NATO can take on this mission in phases, beginning with taking control of Iraq’s border security, and taking over responsibility for northern Iraq and/or the Polish sector, and the training of Iraqi security forces. **This would free up as many as 20,000 American troops** , open the door to participation by non-NATO countries like India and Pakistan, and send an important message to the American people that we are not bearing the security burden in Iraq virtually alone. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/43 "2004-07-06T15:10:23Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > If the 100 million voters who didn’t vote in 2000 are all to the right of the Democrats, how come they didn’t vote for Bush? A lot of the 100 million who didn’t vote are idiots who are apathetic. They don’t know or care enough about the issues to make an informed decision. If you talk to them, some of them will express opinions to the left and some to the right. My point is that given the political realities of who votes regularly and where they live, the Republicans have the advantage now. Given the level of apathy that non-voters have, Kerry would have to break too much from the status quo to get thier attention. He would then alienate the center-left. Kerry has a problem that Bush does not. Nobody is siphoning off votes from the right like Nadar or the Green and Libertarian parties are on the left. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/44 "2004-07-06T15:30:05Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > … Nobody is siphoning off votes from the right like Nadar or the Green and Libertarian parties are on the left. Yes, but even the [Green Party Vice President](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0630-08.htm) is thinking of voting for (presumably) Kerry. > [@](#): > > Pat LaMarche, the Green Party’s newly nominated candidate for vice president, said Tuesday that her top priority is not winning the White House for her party, but ensuring that President Bush is defeated. She is, in fact, so determined to see Bush lose that she would not commit to voting for herself and her running mate, Texas lawyer David Cobb. And for even stranger news, [Pat Buchanan is interviewing Ralph Nader](http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2004%20opinions/June/12%20o/Pat%20Buchanan%20Interviewing%20Ralf%20Nader.htm) to find out if conservatives should vote for him. Excerpt: > [@](#): > > PB: What are the reasons a conservative should vote for Ralph Nader? > > RN: Well, largely— > > PB: Rather than Kerry. > > [Laughter.] > > RN: I’m not expecting conservatives to change their minds on certain issues that we disagree on, but if we look at the issues where we have common positions, they reach a level of gravity that would lead conservatives to stop being taken for granted by the corporate Republicans and send them a message by voting for my independent candidacy. > > Here are the issues. One, conservatives are furious with the Bush regime because of the fantastic deficits as far as the eye can see. That was a betrayal of Bush’s positions, and it was a reversal of what Bush found when he came to Washington. > > Conservatives are very upset about their tax dollars going to corporate welfare kings because that undermines market competition and is a wasted use of their taxes. > > Conservatives are upset about the sovereignty-shredding WTO and NAFTA. I wish they had helped us more when we tried to stop them in Congress because, with a modest conservative push, we would have defeated NAFTA because it was narrowly passed. If there was no NAFTA, there wouldn’t have been a WTO. > > Conservatives are also very upset with a self-styled conservative president who is encouraging the shipment of whole industries and jobs to a despotic Communist regime in China. That is what I mean by the distinction between corporate Republicans and conservative Republicans. > > Next, conservatives, contrary to popular belief, believe in law and order against corporate crime, fraud, and abuse, and they are not satisfied that the Bush administration has done enough. > > Conservatives are also upset about the Patriot Act, which they view as big government, privacy-invading, snooping, and excessive surveillance. They are not inaccurate in that respect. > > And finally, two other things. They don’t like “Leave No Child Behind” because it is a stupidly conceived federal regulation of local school systems through misguided and very fraudulent multiple-choice testing impositions. > > And conservatives are aghast that a born-again Christian president has done nothing about rampant corporate pornography and violence directed to children and separating children from their parents and undermining parental authority. > > If you add all of those up, you should have a conservative rebellion against the giant corporation in the White House masquerading as a human being named George W. Bush. Just as progressives have been abandoned by the corporate Democrats and told,”You got nowhere to go other than to stay home or vote for the Democrats,” this is the fate of the authentic conservatives in the Republican Party. > > I noticed this a long time ago, Pat. I once said to Bill Bennett, “Would you agree that corporatism is on a collision course with conservative values?” and he said yes. > > The impact of giant corporations, commercialism, direct marketing to kids, sidestepping parents, selling them junk food, selling them violence, selling them sex and addictions, selling them the suspension of their socialization process—years ago conservatives spoke out on that, but it was never transformed into a political position. It was always an ethical, religious value position. It is time to take it into the political arena. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/45 "2004-07-06T15:34:59Z")
Back in 1996, I told my Dad that I was voting Libertarian. He told me that it was a wasted vote. :rolleyes: His reasoning was that my candidate didn’t have a chance of winning. He was going to vote for Dole over Clinton. I asked him if Dole had a chance of winning any of Califonia’s electoral votes. He admitted that he didn’t. Well then isn’t that a wasted vote? Why vote for someone who has no chance of winning? He explained that he wanted to show that Dole had some support here. I thanked him for articulating my reasoning so well. Haj ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/46 "2004-07-06T16:00:02Z")
Nice one, **minty**. Just to further point out the OP’s ignorance regarding Edwards’ voting record, according to [Project Vote Smart](http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=CNC68243), which takes its figures from the _Congressional Quarterly_ (i.e., the official source for this stuff), Edwards’ voting participation for his first five years as a senator was as follows: ```auto 2003 61% 2002 100% 2001 99% 2000 100% 1999 99% ``` Not only is Edwards’ voting record overall far better than suggested by your myopic OP, but it’s also better than most of other Democratic Presidential candidates who are also members of Congress. It’s better than [Joe Lieberman’s](http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=S0141103): ```auto 2003 46% 2002 98% 2001 98% 2000 79% 1999 99% ``` It’s better than [Dick Gephardt’s](http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=H2180103): ```auto 2003 9% 2002 93% 2001 91% 2000 91% 1999 90% ``` No, that 9% for 2003 is not a typo. In fact, the only one who beats Edwards is [Dennis Kucinich](http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=BC032003), who even managed 91% in 2003 while trying to get his presidential campaign started: ```auto 2003 91% 2002 99% 2001 98% 2000 98% 1999 99% 1998 99% 1997 99% ``` Maybe, instead of railing against Edwards with a bunch of dubious and unsubstantiated claims, the OP could tell us who Kerry _should_ have chosen as a running mate. Maybe then we can get an idea of what you’re for, not just what you’re against. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/47 "2004-07-06T16:03:27Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Back in 1996, I told my Dad that I was voting Libertarian. He told me that it was a wasted vote. :rolleyes: His reasoning was that my candidate didn’t have a chance of winning. > > He was going to vote for Dole over Clinton. I asked him if Dole had a chance of winning any of Califonia’s electoral votes. He admitted that he didn’t. Well then isn’t that a wasted vote? Why vote for someone who has no chance of winning? He explained that he wanted to show that Dole had some support here. > > I thanked him for articulating my reasoning so well. > > Haj Well, what you’re talking about here is a very prevalent, but very odd mindset. People always say, “why go vote for the guy who has no chance of winning?” No one ever says, “why go vote for the guy who has no chance of losing?” but it makes just as much sense. If you ask yourself the question “what did my vote for the libertarian candidate really accomplish at all,” then without going much further, you’ll find yourself in the “why go vote at all?” argument – something I don’t care about getting into today, but a fight I like around election time. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/48 "2004-07-06T16:33:37Z")
In 2000, Donna Brazile had Gore abandon his campaign in Ohio because the outcome was apparently a foregone conclusion in favor of W. So I voted for Nader, thinking it might help secure a Green position on the ballot the next time around. Turns out Gore lost Ohio, natch, and we Nader voters didn’t get the ballot position. How was my vote any _more_ wasted than those autopilot Democrats who threw theirs away on a self-professed losing candidate. The key to making sure your vote counts is to do it where you figure it’ll have the most impact. A Texas Democrat voting for Kerry is just as wasteful as a Florida Green voiting for Nader. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/49 "2004-07-06T16:36:07Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Back in 1996, I told my Dad that I was voting Libertarian. He told me that it was a wasted vote. :rolleyes: His reasoning was that my candidate didn’t have a chance of winning. Would you accept the argument if it was changed to “voting for a 3rd party candidate in a battleground state is a wasted vote”? If anyone out there in Ohio/Florida/Oregon/etc. is dead set on chalking one up for Nader instead of Kerry, please e-mail me (it’s in my profile). I live in Indiana, and my Democratic vote counts much, much less. Writing in “Nader” would probably boost his support more, for the added effort of writing him in. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/50 "2004-07-06T16:47:19Z")
Futility is a shabby excuse for shirking your duty. I’ve pretty much always been on the conservative wing of the extreme left, and I have never, ever been entirely happy about the candidates I get to choose from. But compromise is the essential function of democracy, when political power is spread out over all the people, its almost a sure bet that nobody gets everything they want. Sure, I would like to see my political viewpoint dominant. But not at the cost of sacrificing the _fundamental_ ideals that lie at the bottom of those viewpoints. The duty of deciding and choosing between two not exactly thrilling candidates may not be emotionally rewarding or intellectually satisfying. (Just about never, come to think of it). My opinion is my contribution, my vote is my communion with democracy. If my only choice is between GeeDubya and Pat Robertson, I’m still going to pull that goddam lever! And _then_ I can go behind the tree to blow chunks. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/51 "2004-07-06T17:00:01Z")
Voting is comedable because it is a privilege that should not be squandered, but don’t fool yourself into thinking any single vote, whether for Dempublican, Republicrat, Green, Libertarian, Communist, Socialist or other will make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/52 "2004-07-06T17:20:28Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Edwards is nothing but a coattail-riding professional office runner. **minty** took a cut at this one already, but let me add this: Edwards ran for Senate in 1998, in North Carolina. Not only were there no coattails to be ridden, but for most of that year, it looked as if 1998 was going to be an exceptionally bad year for Democrats, especially in the South. Rather than riding coattails, Edwards had every reason to believe the larger political winds were blowing against him. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/53 "2004-07-06T17:22:20Z")
So I was at The Dead concert this weekend, and a woman in the row ahead of me was wearing a T-shirt that read: “Vote, F\*cker.” I coulda kissed her. I’ll be voting for Kerry/Edwards. And the only reason I’ll feel like ralphing behind a tree is out of shear nervousness over the outcome. I don’t think it’s hyperbole to fear that another four years of the Bush administration will mean continued and unrepairable losses to our civil liberties and our standing among what friends we have left in the world, even greater degradation of our environment and a poor economic outlook for any family making less than $50,000 a year. Can you really say your vote won’t make a difference? That it doesn’t matter who sits in the White House? I say this with the greatest respect for my fellow Dopers: Vote, Fuckers! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/54 "2004-07-06T17:33:13Z")
If you live in an area where a vast majority of people do not share your political philosophy, voting might seem like a waste of time. Especially if you are politically aware enough to consider the impact of your vote in a national context. Your vote does have more impact on a local level, however. A recent school levy issue just passed here by two votes. If you feel so strongly for a losing cause that you would feel guilty if you didn’t vote, then by all means do so. But if you are pragmatic enough to analyze the particular race, then you should cast your vote where it will do the most strategic good. For example, I can vote for the person I think would be the weakest opponent for someone I support in a party primary instead of just throwing up my hands. Remember, not everyone is interested enough to vote. If you are, that gives you a greater share in the power to change things (or keep them the way the are, if you prefer). ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/55 "2004-07-06T17:38:44Z")
I can only agree with everyone here who says that voting must be taken seriously and carried out by all of us who would like to see a change in party/administration in 2004. And unfortunately, that means voting for the Democrats and Democrats alone. Not Green, not Independent, but Democrat. It’s unfortunate, but true. > [@JonScribe](#): > > I’ll be voting for Kerry/Edwards. And the only reason I’ll feel like ralphing behind a tree is out of shear nervousness over the outcome. I don’t think it’s hyperbole to fear that another four years of the Bush administration will mean continued and unrepairable losses to our civil liberties and our standing among what friends we have left in the world, even greater degradation of our environment and a poor economic outlook for any family making less than $50,000 a year. Jon, unfortunately, I didn’t see Democrats standing up for our civil liberties or standing against the Republican war-mongers when it was most important. I realize that they were playing to their constituents, but I’m pretty disappointed with the lack of spine my party has had for the last 4 years. Only now, after the fact,have several stood in opposition to the PATRIOT act and the wars we’ve involved ourselves in. Sam ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/56 "2004-07-06T17:42:40Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > So go ahead, sell me…why should I support Edwards as VP? Because he’s an articulate, intelligent man who worked his ass off to get from a humble beginning to where he is today. He understands the problems facing normal Americans in a much more tangible way than John Kerry or George W. Bush, and can effectively communicate those experiences thanks to his talents. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/57 "2004-07-06T18:05:10Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > A third party vote is a wasted one. Ralph Nadar kept Al Gore from winning the White House. I’d call you an idiot for this, but that’s already apparent from your intention to vote for Bush. > [@Munch](#): > > The purpose of voting is to shift the political spectrum to match your own. Voting for Nader did the exact opposite of that. If Nader hadn’t have run, Gore would have won - simple as that. Gore also may have won if Bush hadn’t run, is there some sort of point? I don’t care if he lost by 1 vote or 1 million votes, he could _and should_ have run a better campaign. His inability to do so is what cost him the presidency, not Nader. As for Edwards, I personally don’t like a guy who made millions from chasing ambulances, but I suppose there isn’t much I can do. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/58 "2004-07-06T18:10:32Z")
**Knowed Out** , you’re an ass. Not just because you were so wrong about Edwards, but because you picked such a stupid way to deal with the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/59 "2004-07-06T18:11:31Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the further the Democratic Party moves to the left, the less success it has. There are parts of the country where more liberal ideas are in the narrow majority, but if you take the country as a whole, it doesn’t work. If it did, Republicans would not have the majority in both houses of congress. What are you smoking? When has this centrist slide helped the Democrats? The party moves further and further into the indefinite center, and just makes itself look like really wussy Republicans. How’s that help them? If the Democrats managed to shore up some support among their own, they’d be doing a hell of a lot better. I mean, look how mobilized the Fundamentalists are - and Christian attitudes and the Republican party hardly walk hand in hard. If the Democrats would stand up, stop acting like jackasses, and say something that would inspire the progressives and liberals out there, they might have a half a chance. Oh, and to the OP: If you wanna throw your vote away, that makes you a moron. Have fun with that. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781/60 "2004-07-06T18:19:53Z")
I’ve said this countless times, but it bears repeating: It ain’t the man or even his running mate, it’s the baggage and affiliations they bring with them to government. George Bush is a bumbler. This is what he brought with him: Dick Cheney Carl Rove John Ashcroft and a host of other equally slimy megalomaniacs. Together they have made healthy progress towards dismantling the economy, the constitution, and the protective measures put into place over many decades of hard work. A few questions: Are you better off than you were four years ago? Are you happy with the staus quo? Is our international reputation better or worse? Does the constant barrage of information designed to keep you cowering in fear bother you? Does trillion-dollar debt make you feel better or worse? Does this administration best represent what you consider to be the best America can offer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-picks-edwards-as-vp-thats-it-im-not-voting/253781.md?page=4)