# Kerry. Pro or anti assault rifle? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2004, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840 "2004-09-24T07:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/21 "2004-09-24T19:05:30Z")
Of course I am the one in the wrong and I overlooked exactly what it was you were trying to say, **Enipla** , my apologies. It stems from my frustration with pundits, politicos and the media’s misuse of the terms. However, most people would assume that “assault rifle” and “assault weapon” were synonymous, which they are definitely not. If he does in fact own a DEWAT AK-47, it’s legal in states other than California I believe. In california, one can own a registered DEWAT war trinket, but not sell or transfer them except maybe to someone out of state. A thousand pardons again. :o Sam ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/22 "2004-09-24T20:20:45Z")
> [@Spiny Norman](#): > > Ok, this is just silly. > > Isn’t it possible that a reasonable person could approve of assault rifles in the hands of soldiers in a war zone, but disapprove of civilians using them in the inner cities ? I think the question is: Does John F. Kerry, Presidential candidate, own an assault weapon that for the last 10 years has been banned by a bill that he supported? I think it’s a matter of: “These laws apply to you, but not to me.” I don’t care about waffling, shit, I change my mind all the time when I get new information! I think it’s one of his _good_ qualities. (Though I do prefer his French Toast!) Hey, we need a French Smiley! Discrimination! ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/23 "2004-09-24T20:27:27Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > No, dummy. If it was “full auto”, it would NOT be an assault rifle. Officially, under federal legislation, it would be a “machine gun”. An assault rifle is a semi-automatic rifle, not a “full auto” or select-fire weapon. > > Christ. Ignorance abounds when guns come into the conversation. > > Sam No dummy. That was just the _Clinton_ AWB definition of an assault rifle, which has been thoroughly discredited. Select-fire weapons (before 1994) were known as "assault rifles. Like you said: > [@GaWd](#): > > Christ. Ignorance abounds when guns come into the conversation. Thanks for proving the rule. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/24 "2004-09-24T20:57:39Z")
> [@Spiny Norman](#): > > Ok, this is just silly. > > Isn’t it possible that a reasonable person could approve of assault rifles in the hands of soldiers in a war zone, but disapprove of civilians using them in the inner cities ? I know, it can’t be stated as neatly as “pro assault rifles”. But I’d hoped we weren’t yet at the point where any viewpoint more nuanced than a t-shirt slogan can be brushed off as waffling. Except that the qoute could be interpreted as “I have a machine gun in my home”. Owning a machine gun and yet saying that guns that look like machine guns are evil makes you a hypocrite or an idiot in my book. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/25 "2004-09-24T21:11:52Z")
> [@SnakeSpirit](#): > > No dummy. That was just the _Clinton_ AWB definition of an assault rifle, which has been thoroughly discredited. Select-fire weapons (before 1994) were known as "assault rifles. No shit? I’m not disagreeing. I misread him, and shot my fucking mouth off. Hell, I even apologized for jumping to conclusions and making an ass of myself. Prick fuck. BTW, as a youngin, and a californian, the AWB definition is all I know and truly all that applies. Sam ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/26 "2004-09-24T21:50:48Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > No shit? I’m not disagreeing. I misread him, and shot my fucking mouth off. Hell, I even apologized for jumping to conclusions and making an ass of myself. > > Prick fuck. Oh yeah??? Well I apologize back for not reading the whole thread before responding to your post! Insensitive, unforgiving control freak! You’re not the only one who can make mistakes here… SnakeS ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/27 "2004-09-24T22:37:34Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > A thousand pardons again. Sokay. I should have said ‘capable of full-auto’, but I see it as a moot point. I damn near shot off a response to your post #20 before reading the rest of the thread. I really don’t know what you where trying to say there. I never alluded to anything you included in your re-buff. > [@](#): > > but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle Is it de-commisioned? I wonder. I mean really, he could be in deep shit if anyone followed up on this. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/28 "2004-09-24T23:33:59Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Is it de-commisioned? I wonder. I mean really, he could be in deep shit if anyone followed up on this. ROTFL! Yeah, just like Bush got in trouble for going AWOL! Kerry’s supporters would forgive im unconditionally while making absurd excuses for the ‘oversight,’ no one would issue an arrest warrant, and the whole thing would quickly be forgotten by everyone but the GOP, and e’d get to keep it as well. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/29 "2004-09-25T00:13:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, just like Bush got in trouble for going AWOL! I suppose you might be right. SnakeSpirit, I believe you posted a quote from Kerry about how the AWB covered machine guns. Pisses me off that either these guys don’t know what the hell they are talking about, or are deliberately misleading people. Pisses GaWd off too, apparently. We should all be very, very pissed off, but many of the anti-gun folks don’t seem to care. They seem to believe that if it’s a gun law, it’s a good law. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/30 "2004-09-25T00:49:20Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Pisses me off that either these guys don’t know what the hell they are talking about, or are deliberately misleading people. Pisses GaWd off too, apparently. > > We should all be very, very pissed off, but many of the anti-gun folks don’t seem to care. They seem to believe that if it’s a gun law, it’s a good law. I keep remembering back to a letter I got from Teddy Kennedy supporting the extension of the AWB. E said that there was no practical use for guns that “spray fire from the hip,” and will “Put 20 rounds into a policemen’s body faster than you can say ‘National Rifle Association.’” Both of those, falsehoods. I can’t believe that these prominant movers in politics don’t know the truth. I’ve told them, the NRA has told them, they’ve had time to check on the veracity of our statements. I can only conclude that they, and the entire organized anti-gun lobby are \*\*\*deliberately lying \* \*\* in order to mislead people into supporting their misguided agenda. Well, maybe not all of them. Some of them are simply stupid and misled themselves. Teddy lies. Kerry may just be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/31 "2004-09-25T01:08:57Z")
All I can concluded is that since many of the anti-gun folks will vote for anyone that is anti-gun. The politicians will mislead to get votes. Nothing new under the sun I guess. I’m voting for Kerry. But for different reasons. It sucks that his position seems to be anti-gun. Although I’m not sure if he even knows what his position is. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/32 "2004-09-25T12:14:38Z")
> [@SnakeSpirit](#): > > I keep remembering back to a letter I got from Teddy Kennedy supporting the extension of the AWB. E said that there was no practical use for guns that “spray fire from the hip,” and will “Put 20 rounds into a policemen’s body faster than you can say ‘National Rifle Association.’” Both of those, falsehoods. Well, the second statement is definitely a falsehood – but I’m not so sure about the first. Three of the features that can make a semiautomatic rifle qualify as an “assault weapon” under the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban – the folding stock, the pistol grip, and the flash suppressor – all make it somewhat easier to fire the rifle from the hip. I’m not saying “spray fire from the hip” is an accurate description of what such an activity would look like, particularly since the rifle would only be semiautomatic, but if you _wanted_ to fire such a rifle from the hip it would be easier than if it lacked those 3 features. (The other two “assault weapon” features – the bayonet clip and the grenade launcher – have nothing to do with being able to fire the rifle from the hip and are pretty much bullshit scary-sounding cosmetic features.) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/33 "2004-09-25T13:11:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Three of the features that can make a semiautomatic rifle qualify as an “assault weapon” under the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban – the folding stock, the pistol grip, and the flash suppressor – all make it somewhat easier to fire the rifle from the hip. I disagree. The pistol grip allows the rifle to be made more compact, and easier to fire over your head, out of trenches and such. Think about the angle of your wrist on a regular rifle, and then how you would have to bend it even more on a pistol grip to ‘fire from the hip’. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/34 "2004-09-25T15:23:39Z")
> [@SnakeSpirit](#): > > I keep remembering back to a letter I got from Teddy Kennedy supporting the extension of the AWB. E said that there was no practical use for guns that “spray fire from the hip,” and will “Put 20 rounds into a policemen’s body faster than you can say ‘National Rifle Association.’” Both of those, falsehoods. So tell me- what _is_ the practical use for a gun that “spray[s] fire from the hip”, or “will put 20 rounds into a policeman’s body”? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/35 "2004-09-25T17:21:17Z")
> [@](#): > > So tell me- what is the practical use for a gun that “spray[s] fire from the hip”, or “will put 20 rounds into a policeman’s body”? Umm. None? What kind of gun are you talking about? It’s not Assault weapons. Sub-machine guns perhaps? They’er covered in the 1934 ban. In anycase, anyone that knows anything about guns does not shoot from the hip. Nor does anyone shoot a pistol the sideways ‘gangsta’ style. SnakeSpirit quoted Kennedy as an example of how some policy makers mislead people. ---
**Author:** ![Berkut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Berkut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Berkut)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/36 "2004-09-25T18:39:12Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > So tell me- what _is_ the practical use for a gun that “spray[s] fire from the hip”, or “will put 20 rounds into a policeman’s body”? My old Ruger 10/22 in .22 LR could “spray fire from the hip” and “put 20 rounds into a policeman’s body”. I used it to shoot cans and targets. A few people use them for pest control, hunting, etc. A .22 is the firearm equivelent of Mom and apple pie, and even they were affected by the so called “assault weapons” ban. You can make almost anything sound scary and dangerous if you’re dishonest enough. “This brick can bash in a child’s skull in less than a second, and yet they are widely available. Why don’t we switch to building materials that are less likely to be used as murder weapons? If it saves even ONE LIFE, it’s worth it.” “This box van could be driven on the sidewalk and mow down hundreds of people before police can stop it. It has the weight of 4 or 5 police cruisers, which are simply no match for the powerful box vans available to criminals today.” “This .460 Weatherby can defeat ANY body armor in use today, and can penetrate multiple police cars or even innocent civilians homes with a single shot. Why do we let these guns flood our streets with almost no restrictions at all? An 18 year old can buy one!” “It’s too dangerous for elementry school students to be walking around with sharpened wooden sticks, capable of murdering or maiming another student. The hundreds if not thousands of pencil-related injuries each year prove it. Please support this common sense legislation to keep pencils out of our schools.” “This muzzleloading rifle can fire a .68 caliber projectile- Larger than the .50 BMG round the military uses to take out lightly armored vehicles and aircraft, and more than TWICE the size of an AK-47 projectile! Yet they are available via MAIL ORDER. Almost anyone can pick up the phone and have one delievered to their home the next day.” To me, most of the gun control groups sound like the [Dihydrogen Monoxide](http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html) thing that went around a while back. It’s deliberate lying and distortion of the truth designed to play on the emotions of people that don’t know a lot about firearms. They might even get more support if they didn’t come off like a bunch of screaming drama queens that are treating the public like they’re idiots. If only they could make a case without all the BS. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/37 "2004-09-25T18:48:11Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > So tell me- what _is_ the practical use for a gun that “spray[s] fire from the hip”, or “will put 20 rounds into a policeman’s body”? There is exactly one use for those weapons. They exist so that people like Ted Kennedy can convince you that they are the bogeyman and that they and all other weapons should be banned. Because frankly, nobody fires from the hip except in Hollywood, nobody gets killed with full-auto weapons (except in one case when a cop was contracted to do the killing), and full-auto weapons have been carefully controlled since 1934. But if you knew that you wouldn’t be scared, and then what would Teddy do then? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/38 "2004-09-25T21:19:57Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > nobody fires from the hip except in Hollywood, Maybe the danger is “Those dirty no-nothing crooks are going to start firing from the hip because they see people do it in the movies. And when they do, they’re going to miss their intended target and hit _ **your children!!** _ It’s vitally important that we ban all the guns that look like the ones that people fire from the hip with in Hollywood _right now!_ Oh, and we should also ban revolvers, because movie cowboys are shown not only shooting from the hip but also playing quick-draw with them, which makes them even _more_ unlikely to hit an unintended target.” ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/39 "2004-09-26T08:34:35Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > the folding stock, the pistol grip, and the flash suppressor – all make it somewhat easier to fire the rifle from the hip. I’m not saying “spray fire from the hip” is an accurate description of what such an activity would look like, particularly since the rifle would only be semiautomatic, but if you _wanted_ to fire such a rifle from the hip it would be easier than if it lacked those 3 features. As a former firearms user, I can’t see where a flash supressor or a folding stock makes it easier to fire from the hip. Can you explain yourself? ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840/40 "2004-09-26T08:38:48Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > So tell me- what _is_ the practical use for a gun that “spray[s] fire from the hip”, or “will put 20 rounds into a policeman’s body”? Well, why don’t you _SHOW_ me such a gun, and then perhaps you can get an answer. Oh, perhaps you mean machine guns? Covered by prohibative laws since 1933? Really good in military applications. Also good if you’re a revolutionary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-pro-or-anti-assault-rifle/265840.md?page=3)