# Kerry will self-destruct **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865 "2004-02-18T20:26:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/1 "2004-02-18T20:26:45Z")
[Kill the messenger.](http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110004709) It’s from a notorious conservative source (WSJ “[opinionjournal.com](http://opinionjournal.com)”). That’s why I posted it here, so you could tell me just how right wing I am. Oh, and stupid. But, I am old enough to know a really good “issue” ad by a POW group when I hear one. > [@](#): > > \*\*Kerry has the dubious and perhaps unique distinction of being a presidential candidate whose speeches have actually been used as an instrument of torture against Americans. The Los Angeles Times reports on Kerry’s April 22, 1971, appearance before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which we noted last week: > > Dressed in his combat fatigues and ribbons, [Kerry] told Congress that U.S. soldiers had “raped, cut off ears, cut off heads . . . randomly shot at civilians . . . in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan.” He later acknowledged that he did not witness the crimes himself but had heard about them from others. . . . > > Paul Galanti learned of Kerry’s speech while held captive inside North Vietnam’s infamous “Hanoi Hilton” prison. The Navy pilot had been shot down in June 1966 and spent nearly seven years as a prisoner of war. > > During torture sessions, he said, his captors cited the antiwar speeches as “an example of why we should cross over to [their] side.” > > Whereas those who’ve attended Edwards events report that he’s a captivating speaker, listening to Kerry speak is like being in captivity.\*\* I await my just punishment, but no Kerry speeches. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/2 "2004-02-18T20:55:29Z")
You want a defense of the man without actually quoting him so as to reveal what lies behind the liberal usage of ellipsis (and by conservatives no less)? Short answer is that the quote is extremely misleading - he is quoting people and in the testimony he makes it clear he is quoting people. From [http://pages.xtn.net/~wingman/docs/kerryst.htm](http://pages.xtn.net/~wingman/docs/kerryst.htm) I am assuming that testimony before Congress is public record and therefore I can quote the first two paragraphs in their entirety. Vietnam Veterans Against the War Statement by John Kerry to the Senate Committee of Foreign Relations April 23, 1971 > [@](#): > > I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do. > > They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country I am guessing that **Beagle** would not consider the following to be a fair summary of his OP. Kill … Kerry torture … Americans. U.S. soldiers . . .acknowledged that. . . Edwards . . . is . . . in captivity. As to whether or not acknowledging atrocities committed by one’s own side is appropriate, I kind of feel the world needs all the Campbell-Bannerman s it can get. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/3 "2004-02-18T20:59:24Z")
hey, nobody’s perfect. ::d&r:: ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/4 "2004-02-18T21:20:10Z")
After my previous post I realized that my excessively elliptical quote of the OP could be construed as wishing death on someone. That was certainly not my intent and I apologize to any who might be offended by it. I (seriously) would have reported the post except that there is no little exclamation point icon on the post. (I realize this is no doubt by intent, as what idiot would want to report their own post.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/5 "2004-02-18T21:46:48Z")
If Jane Fonda and gay marriage is all you got, you guys are sooooo doomed. This shit really chaps my hide. I heard this crap all before, all this “aid and comfort to the enemy” drivel. If telling the truth is not patriotic, your loyalty is misplaced. By the way, my recollection of his testimony before the Senate differs from yours, I don’t recall that he was wearing fatigues. Got a photo? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/6 "2004-02-18T22:10:40Z")
> [@Beagle](#): > > listening to Kerry speak is like being in captivity. And we should all be so lucky as to have to listen to Shrub’s “Meet The Press” eloquence for Another four years? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/7 "2004-02-18T22:17:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > By the way, my recollection of his testimony before the Senate differs from yours, I don’t recall that he was wearing fatigues. Got a photo? **Beagle** is not going from memory. The _LA Times_ is being quoted by the editorial’s author. The article mentioning Kerry’s wearing of fatigues appears in [yesterday’s _LA Times_](http://www.latimes.com/la-na-vietnam17feb17,1,5556450.story) (free registration required). A b/w picture of Kerry in fatigues addressing the Senate panel appears to the right of the article. Clicking on the picture reveals the following caption: > [@](#): > > On April 22, 1971, the day before he threw away his combat ribbons, Kerry testifies before a Senate panel. “How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?” he asked. (AP) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/8 "2004-02-18T22:21:02Z")
> [@Beagle](#): > > [Kill the messenger.](http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110004709) It’s from a notorious conservative source (WSJ “[opinionjournal.com](http://opinionjournal.com)”). > > That’s why I posted it here, so you could tell me just how right wing I am. Oh, and stupid. … Nah, too easy. > [@Beagle](#): > > But, I am old enough to know a really good “issue” ad by a POW group when I hear one. I await my just punishment, but no Kerry speeches. Clemenceau once said, “He who is not liberal in his youth has no heart; he who does not become conservative with age has no head.” After seeing old extreme conservatives in power (and in message boards) not reflecting on why they continue to depend on very dubious sources of information for their actions (or talking points), I realize now that Clemenceu was wrong. As the fearless leader would say: \*There’s an old saying in Tennessee - I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can’t get fooled again. \*- George Bush Oh, never mind… That opinion piece in the WSJ is a good example of a messenger that is only telling part of the truth. The result, as I have said hundreds of times before, is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/9 "2004-02-18T22:30:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > By the way, my recollection of his testimony before the Senate differs from yours, I don’t recall that he was wearing fatigues. Got a photo? Just in case you can’t be bothered remembering your login id and password (I know \*I \* usually can’t be), here’s another site with that photo. [About halfway down the page.](http://www.8bitjoystick.com/groundzero/archives/2003_08.php) ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/10 "2004-02-18T22:37:48Z")
I don’t get it. Why should Kerry be ashamed of having been a POW? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/11 "2004-02-18T22:41:37Z")
Yeppers, point taken. It was worth it to read about Dick Nixon pissing and moaning about Kerry to Haldeman. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/12 "2004-02-18T22:52:46Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I don’t get it. Why should Kerry be ashamed of having been a POW? He wasn’t a POW. His speech was used by the North Vietnamese for propaganda purposes against the POWs. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/13 "2004-02-18T23:05:06Z")
I see. Thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/14 "2004-02-18T23:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Kerry has the dubious and perhaps unique distinction of being a presidential candidate whose speeches have actually been used as an instrument of torture against Americans. George W. Bush has the dubious and perhaps unique distinction of having been caught **lying to the American people to start a war** less than a year after he told those lies. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/15 "2004-02-18T23:10:54Z")
at least he showed up for war. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/16 "2004-02-18T23:12:35Z")
I actually agree with the OP. Kerry’s campaign could, indeed, self-destruct. However, this isn’t what will cause said self-destruction. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/17 "2004-02-18T23:29:27Z")
I don’t think either side is served by Dredging up (hah!) Vietnam era activities. By the logic of this article, the My Lai masacre trial could have been used as fodder by the NV to torture American soldiers. This whole “Jane Fonda” tactic is a loser. Besides, Kerry’s 19 yrs of senate voting will offer the Pubs plenty of amunition to use against him withour resorting to this junk. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/18 "2004-02-18T23:40:43Z")
This just in: Kerry to be used to deliver IMF message. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/19 "2004-02-18T23:45:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Kerry has the dubious and perhaps unique distinction of being a presidential candidate whose speeches have actually been used as an instrument of torture against Americans. \*\* Apparently, you’ve never heard Al Gore give a speech. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2004, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/20 "2004-02-18T23:57:28Z")
You know, **kaylasdad** , I looked at that picture and it rang a bell. I’ve examined closely with special perception enhancement techniques… Tucker Carlson is John Kerry’s love child!! (Don’t tell Drudge…) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865.md?page=2)