# Kerry will self-destruct **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865 "2004-02-18T20:26:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/21 "2004-02-19T05:12:03Z")
So Kerry’s speeches have been used as torture? What the fuck does that have to do with anything? [Sesame Street music](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3042907.stm) has been used to torture people as well. Anything can be torture given the right context. But the fact is that Kerry was testifying in the hopes that he might prevent more young Americans from getting sent off to die. That’s a damnable offense? What is this, Bizarro World? ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/22 "2004-02-19T05:22:06Z")
Kerry will indeed self-destruct. Hopefully when it happens, it will be too late for the Dems to find a replacement and they’ll be forced to keep him on for the election and a major asskicking will take place. However, it won’t be over his speeches. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/23 "2004-02-19T05:33:07Z")
> [@SnoopyFan](#): > > Kerry will indeed self-destruct. Hopefully when it happens, it will be too late for the Dems to find a replacement and they’ll be forced to keep him on for the election and a major asskicking will take place. > > However, it won’t be over his speeches. Oy. What will it be over? ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/24 "2004-02-19T05:36:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What will it be over? Kerry reusing dental floss… or something similarly serious… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/25 "2004-02-19T07:15:08Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > His speech was used by the North Vietnamese for propaganda purposes against the POWs. Good god almighty! How _dare_ the North Vietnamese monitor the words and thoughts of the citizens of an open society and **repeat** them?! Shock! Horrors! Obviously, the best way to prevent any such future treasonous use of our citizens’ words against ourselves is to ban all dissenting speech! If you’ve got nothing good to say about the President and the nation, then _shut the fuck up you treasonous assholes!_ …oops, sorry, channelling Ann Coulter for a minute there. Yuck. Now I gotta go gargle. With bleach. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/26 "2004-02-19T07:15:37Z")
Leaving the usual Republican smears aside, I’d like to suggest that Edwards, in fact, may be more electable than Kerry. Edwards is a good speaker and hails from the South. Kerry is a mediocre to average orator and hails from New England. Northeastern Democrats have a habit of losing. IMHO, Kerry is a seasoned and thoughtful leader would make better decisions in office than Edwards. ## But neither would reliably set aside evidence in favor of their ideological pre-dispositions like Bush does. For deficit reduction and national security reasons, Edwards has my primary vote: he has a better shot at unseating Bush. I urge Republicans to organize a write-in ballot for McCain, Powell, Lugar or Alexander. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/27 "2004-02-19T07:22:36Z")
IMHO, Kerry is a seasoned and thoughtful leader _who_ would make better decisions in office than Edwards. ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/28 "2004-02-19T07:38:41Z")
> [@SnoopyFan](#): > > Kerry will indeed self-destruct. Hopefully when it happens, it will be too late for the Dems to find a replacement and they’ll be forced to keep him on for the election and a major asskicking will take place. > > However, it won’t be over his speeches. Oy. One of your most lovable tendencies is to take hard-line conservative agitprop, and then declare it as complete and utter fact. Oh, that along with your tendency to hit and run at topics. Brian, who’d be perfectly happy with either Edwards or Kerry. Preferably, both. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/29 "2004-02-19T09:26:00Z")
The more the GOP perceive Kerry as a threat, the more vicious the attacks will get. Judging by GOP posters here, GWB is heading for a sure win. So the question remains - if they’re so confident, why not just shrug at Kerry (or Edwards) and smile all the way to November? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/30 "2004-02-19T11:11:16Z")
Will Kerry self-destruct? That’s a definite maybe. Certainly the Bushies must hope so: > [@](#): > > [02/18/2004 - USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll results](http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/polls/usatodaypolls.htm) > > 1. If Massachusetts Senator John Kerry were the Democratic Party’s candidate and George W. Bush were the Republican Party’s candidate, who would you be more likely to vote for? > > Likely Voters: > > Kerry 55 > Bush 43 So I guess there’s hope there for the Bushies. But wait a minute: > [@](#): > > [02/18/2004 - USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll results](http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/polls/usatodaypolls.htm) > > 1. If North Carolina Senator John Edwards were the Democratic Party’s candidate and George W. Bush were the Republican Party’s candidate, who would you be more likely to vote for? > > Likely Voters: > > Edwards 54 > Bush 44 I can remember the recent polls where an “unnamed Democratic candidate” would win out over Bush, and how those polls were dismissed as unrealistic. Turns out it’s true. People will vote for ABB (Anyone But Bush). But wait, there’s still hope for the Bushies: > [@](#): > > [02/18/2004 President’s approval ratings continue to sag](http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-02-18-poll_x.htm) > > Stephen Hess, a presidential scholar at the Brookings Institution, a think tank in Washington, said that although the poll findings suggest Bush is in trouble, it is too early to consider that a forecast of the Nov. 2 election. The economy and Iraq are unpredictable factors, and the campaign has yet to take shape, he said. Yep, there’s the thing. All the Bushies have to do is wait for silmultaneous miracles to occur in Iraq and the employment numbers. They don’t seem to have any sort of plan about Iraq or employment, but hey, just you wait! That non-existent plan’s gonna take shape one of these days. Just you Dems watch out. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/31 "2004-02-19T11:46:34Z")
:shrug: His campaign speeches will be used to torture Tighty Righties for the next 9 months, too. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/32 "2004-02-19T14:10:04Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > They don’t seem to have any sort of plan about Iraq or employment, but hey, just you wait! Disgusting liberal nonsense! The plan in Iraq is to transform the country into a WMD-free secular Democracy within four months, and the employment plan is to wait for the massive business growth caused by wealthy people investing their tax cuts. It’ll happen any day now… Also, it’s not fair to bash Bush without giving him credit for his social plan: 1.5 billion to help the children of heterosexual couples, and 270 million to tell young people not to have sex before marriage! ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/33 "2004-02-19T14:26:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What will it be over? WMD, Halliburton, Enron, Jobs, Deficit-- oops you meant Kerry! Love the panic from the far right wing. The lengths they are going to to try invent something is amazing. Hey guys, found those WMD’s yet? How’s that deficit going? The Iraq occupation is paying for itself right? How about all those secret no-Bid contracts to the VP’s old company- that worked out ok right? Afganistan then? Anti-gay bigotry? Hmm- how about the treasonous revelation of a spy’s indentity cause Shrub got caught fibbing on Iraq’s imaginary Nuke program- how’s that investigationcoming? Or the one into the adminstration’s misteps on 9/11? How about those promises to protect us from big government, oops- oh yeah the Patriot Act and the creepy Ashcroft are doing wonders there. And do you really want to bring up the war issue when your rich, cowardly little daddy’s boy used his father’s connections to dodge the war, then dodge his obligations. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/34 "2004-02-19T17:30:59Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Obviously, the best way to prevent any such future treasonous use of our citizens’ words against ourselves is to ban all dissenting speech! If you’ve got nothing good to say about the President and the nation, then _shut the fuck up you treasonous assholes!_ This is so funny because a lot of people actually have that opinion. Or tragic, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/35 "2004-02-19T19:03:31Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > This is so funny because a lot of people actually have that opinion. Or tragic, I suppose. All tragedy, no comedy, IMO. I blame talk radio. ---
**Author:** ![Matchka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Matchka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matchka)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/36 "2004-02-19T19:22:40Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Disgusting liberal nonsense! > > The plan in Iraq is to transform the country into a WMD-free secular Democracy within four months, and the employment plan is to wait for the massive business growth caused by wealthy people investing their tax cuts. It’ll happen any day now… > > Also, it’s not fair to bash Bush without giving him credit for his social plan: 1.5 billion to help the children of heterosexual couples, and 270 million to tell young people not to have sex before marriage! **Metacom** , I had a can of lighter fluid with your name on it until I was halfway through your post. 🙂 Say…Speaking of the Hanoi Hilton, anyone have a link to any comments the excellent Mr. McCain might have regarding our Mr. Kerry? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/37 "2004-02-19T19:46:10Z")
> [@Matchka](#): > > Say…Speaking of the Hanoi Hilton, anyone have a link to any comments the excellent Mr. McCain might have regarding our Mr. Kerry? > > Just curious. Well, [here’s one](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/14/171818.shtml) from a biased source (Newsmax; biased _against_ John Kerry), which cites McCain as a defender of Kerry. Here’s [another biased source](http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_0630.html) (Kerry’s own website), which quotes McCain: > [@](#): > > Asked if Kerry was the Democratic candidate most closely resembling him, McCain demurred. > > `I don't know,'' he said. `He and I are very good personal friends, so my objectivity is probably skewed.’’ > > McCain said he would not be surprised if political foes and the press try to pick apart or distort Kerry’s combat record. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/38 "2004-02-19T19:57:49Z")
> [@Matchka](#): > > **Metacom** , I had a can of lighter fluid with your name on it until I was halfway through your post. 🙂 > > Say…Speaking of the Hanoi Hilton, anyone have a link to any comments the excellent Mr. McCain might have regarding our Mr. Kerry? > > Just curious. It’s a little indirect but McCain relaesed a pretty scathing [attack](http://www.usvetdsp.com/mccain_pr_13feb.htm) on the so-called “Vietnam Vets Against John Kerry” last week. He was especially harsh on group organizer, Ted Sampley: > [@](#): > > “I am well familiar with Mr. Sampley, and I know him to be one of the most despicable people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. I consider him a fraud who preys on the hopes of family members of missing servicemen for his own profit. He is dishonorable, an enemy of the truth, and despite his claims, he does not speak for or represent the views of all but a few veterans. The many veterans I know would think it a disgrace to be considered a comrade or supporter of Ted Sampley.” It’s not really an _endorsement_ of Kerry (which would not be expected) but it’s a blistering assault on those who are attacking Kerry’s war record. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/39 "2004-02-19T21:06:09Z")
I have to admit all the attacks on [“one of America’s most radical appeasement groups, Vietnam Veterans Against the War”](http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12215) have been making me laugh in a sad, ironic manner. Did the people who make such claims actually KNOW any of those guys? RADICAL? Shit-oh-dear, they made the Grandmothers Against the War look radical.\* The ones I knew were politically moderate to conservative. They were just against the war. And by the time the VVAW formed most of the country was turning against the war. If Kerry was guilty of anything it was jumping on the bandwagon. And the modern cons forget that their St Richard was elected on an “end the war” platform. - - Okay, I’ll admit that some of the grannies had been Commies back in the 30s and were still pretty far left but who’s gonna diss grandmothers? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865/40 "2004-02-19T21:23:09Z")
So far, and admittedly we are not very far into it, all the anti-Kerry people have produced is wishful thinking along the lines of Senator Kerry’s campaign is doomed because he attended an anti-war rally with Jane Fonda, because he threw his service ribbons, because the North Vietnamese used his speech to the Congressional committee to propagandize POW, because he had an illicit relationship with an employee, because he uses big words and deals in concepts that are complex, because he is a New England liberal, because this and because that. It is wishful thinking. None of the rumors, half truths and slanders have worked, although Rush was blathering about the young woman in Kenya on Wednesday morning as if the _Sun_’s discredited s exposé was verified and double refined truth. Some of our friends are hoping for a miracle so hard that they have hallucinated reality out of conjecture. What strikes me is that Carl Rove and his surrogates might well have shot their wad already and the only scandal they have is the weak tea that has already been spilled. That means that, assuming that Senator Kerry is his party’s nominee for President, sooner or later President Bush is going to have to face him man to man in a discussion of the great issues of the day. Based of the President’s performance catching soft balls on _Meet the Press_ is not going to be pretty. The hard core, Bush adherent’s best hope is that Senator Kerry is struck by lightening before that confrontation happens. Our friends might as well predict a lightening strike as a campaign destroyed by c scandal or _hubris_. The Bush camp can’t afford to have their boy go up against Senator Kerry in the open field. What does scare me is not Senator Kerry and any proclivities he might have, but rather the immense war chest that the President and his friends have accumulated over the past three years. That money has to be spent before the national convention. After that the spending limits kick in to level the playing field. I’m not at all sure that Senator Kerry can contend with the barrage of half truths that will be dropped on the TV watching public between now and the GOP convention. I say half truths because it is my experience that that is what almost all political ads are and because the whole truth will cause President Bush’s self destruction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerry-will-self-destruct/229865.md?page=3)