# Kerry's Botched Joke **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631 "2006-10-31T19:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/242 "2006-11-01T21:42:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It wasn’t a swipe at Bush’s academic acheivements, it was a swipe at Bush’s failure to “study” and “do his homework” before invading Iraq. [/QUOTE] Then that is even more convuluted than I thought. I am not surprised so many people are skeptical that this is what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/243 "2006-11-01T21:44:40Z")
If there’s one thing we all ought to be able to agree on: If Kerry’s gaffe warranted five pages of discussion, in a world of more worthy issues, the United States is going straight to Hell, on the high speed express train. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/244 "2006-11-01T21:45:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Then that is even more convuluted than I thought. I am not surprised so many people are skeptical that this is what he meant. [/QUOTE] In it’s context it was pretty easy to understand. And no one is _really_ skeptical about who he was talking about. They’re only pretending to be. All of the outrage over this is transparently phoney and grasping. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/245 "2006-11-01T21:46:55Z")
[This](http://www.heritage.org/) released just 4 days before Kerry’s “joke”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/246 "2006-11-01T21:49:42Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Again, it wasn’t about Bush’s formal education, it was a play on “studying” and “doing your homework.” [/QUOTE] Huh? “Studying” and “doing your homework” are a big part of your education-- it doesn’t get force fed to you. Of course he was taking a swipe at Bush’s education-- what he got out of his college years. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/247 "2006-11-01T21:51:44Z")
In a way, I think the whole flap might end up being a net gain for the Democrats. Kerry is not on any of the ballots and it allows those who are to suck up to the military by pretending to be disturbed by the flubbed joke about Bush. If Ford says that Kerry should apologize then where are the Pubs going to go with that? The issue is over right there and Ford probably gains a few more votes. There really isn’t anyway for the Pubs to translate this into gaining votes in individual elections. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/248 "2006-11-01T21:53:41Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] If there’s one thing we all ought to be able to agree on: If Kerry’s gaffe warranted five pages of discussion, in a world of more worthy issues, the United States is going straight to Hell, on the high speed express train. [/QUOTE] Agreed. The Republicans are sure milking this for as much as humanly possible- I guess it keeps their mistakes out of the public eye for a bit. Any other time, this’d be a minor blip in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/249 "2006-11-01T21:54:53Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Huh? “Studying” and “doing your homework” are a big part of your education-- it doesn’t get force fed to you. Of course he was taking a swipe at Bush’s education-- what he got out of his college years. [/QUOTE] No, he was taking a swipe at Bush’s failure to “study” and “do his homework” and “be smart” before invading Iraq. That should be blindingly obvious to anyone who gives it a moment’s thought. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/250 "2006-11-01T21:56:29Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Isn’t it cute when all the conservatives pretend that they can’t understand a joke? I almost believe they’re sincerely offended. [/QUOTE] It’s a week before the elections and the GOP is getting hammered in the polls – you _bet_ they’ll clutch at anything available to deflect the heat away from them. I like [Peter David’s](http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/004892.html) dissection of the issue: “…let’s see what makes more sense: The notion that Kerry, who served in the armed forces, would be dissing the troops, or that Kerry, who despises Bush and Co., would be dissing the administration.” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/251 "2006-11-01T21:56:59Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] I can’t believe this thread has grown to this length. Can someone explain to me what the greater consequences of this are? What crimes have been commited? How many lives are on the line here? What constitutional protections are being endangered by Sen. Lurch’s poor attempt at comedy? What anything of this has to do with the Democratic party and next Tuesday? [/QUOTE] As I have mentioned earlier, it’s just the chuckle factor for me. Kerry botched it, and both sides are spinning it to favor their “side”. I still don’t think Kerry was targeting the Military Educational average, but because of his botch, that is how the sentence is read. He should have paid closer attention to his speach writers flash cards. I do not believe this will significantly effect the outcome (whatever it may be) of the election next week. (The core constituents have already decided. The voters who are in the middle, and undecided, will probably think that it’s not much of an issue, as Kerry is not running for anything…) But I will tell you what… if the Democrats don’t sweep into power by a landslide like they have been predicting, then this will be seen by pundits as _the_ incident that stopped them. Not fair, but there you go. Comes with the job. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/252 "2006-11-01T21:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex] [This](http://www.heritage.org/) released just 4 days before Kerry’s “joke”. [/QUOTE] I think it’s been established beyond any credible doubt that Kerry wasn’t talking about the military so any continued discussion of the relative educational levels of the troops is just a red herring and a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/253 "2006-11-01T21:58:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No, he was taking a swipe at Bush’s failure to “study” and “do his homework” and “be smart” before invading Iraq. That should be blindingly obvious to anyone who gives it a moment’s thought. [/QUOTE] A reasonable explanation, maybe. Blindingly obvious, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/254 "2006-11-01T22:01:01Z")
Even Cnn framed the story that way. The “Kerry says it meant X” was part of the he said, she said later in the piece, but the actual description of the story was “Kerry’s remarks about the education level of the troops” and so forth. To their credit, subsequent stories seem to have been more nuanced. I’m talking about the the media sources here too: people like drudge, of course, framed it as being incapable of being interpreted any other way right from the start. A lot of the conservative pundits even seem to imply that they don’t believe Kerry really implied what the headline him as implying: but hey, let’s kick the guy where it hurts! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/255 "2006-11-01T22:05:48Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] As I have mentioned earlier, it’s just the chuckle factor for me. Kerry botched it, and both sides are spinning it to favor their “side”. [/QUOTE] What we have is a classic case of Amphibology. There is clearly a way to interpret it either way. Insisting that Kerry definitely MEANT it the bad way, it seems to me, is essentially fallacious and dishonest. It can be interpreted either way, and it isn’t up to anyone’s judgement which way he meant it: it’s up to HIS judgement which way he meant it. His sin is not being clear about what he meant… but it’s still unfair to insist that you know better than he which meaning he meant. > **[Syntactic ambiguity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibology)** > > Syntactic ambiguity, also known as structural ambiguity, amphiboly, or amphibology, is characterized by the potential for a sentence to yield multiple interpretations due to its ambiguous syntax. This form of ambiguity is not derived from the varied meanings of individual words but rather from the relationships among words and clauses within a sentence, concealing interpretations beneath the word order. Consequently, a sentence presents as syntactically ambiguous when it permits reasonable der In... ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/256 "2006-11-01T22:07:53Z")
Fox News has not only been reporting it as Kerry’s remarks’ about “the educational level of the troops,” as though that were a fact but has also (from what I’ve seen) completely ignored any other interpretation or explanation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/257 "2006-11-01T22:08:52Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No, he was taking a swipe at Bush’s failure to “study” and “do his homework” and “be smart” before invading Iraq. That should be blindingly obvious to anyone who gives it a moment’s thought. [/QUOTE] No, it’s not. This whole thing was so mangled, I can’t say for sure what he meant other than it was a swipe at Bush. It sounded like a swipe at his education to me-- homework and study are things we usually associate with school. You could be right, but it’s anything other than “blindingly obvious”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/258 "2006-11-01T22:12:45Z")
Kerry has now [apologized to the troops](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226820,00.html) (even though he had nothong to apologize for). Is there any reason to keep beating this horse? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/259 "2006-11-01T22:15:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Kerry has now [apologized to the troops](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226820,00.html) (even though he had nothong to apologize for). Is there any reason to keep beating this horse? [/QUOTE] As long as it’s a news story, it’s going to keep getting beaten. Maybe that will finally quash it, but l doubt it. This’ll be more fodder for the wingnuts-- See, the fact that he apologzed to the troops proves he was talking about them! ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/260 "2006-11-01T22:16:40Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Kerry has now [apologized to the troops](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226820,00.html) (even though he had nothong to apologize for). [/QUOTE] I believe it is considered good form to apologize for insulting someone, even if the insult was not intended, or was phrased in some way that was misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/261 "2006-11-01T22:19:29Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Isn’t it cute when all the conservatives pretend that they can’t understand a joke? I almost believe they’re sincerely offended. [/QUOTE] Hmm. Are all of the people who say they are upset conservative? Some Dem’s didnt like it much… Hillary Clinton and Harold ford say so: From: [Newsday | Long Island's & NYC's News Source - Newsday](http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--clinton-kerry1101nov01,0,1054510.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork) > [@](#): > > Asked Wednesday at the VFW post about the Kerry remarks, Clinton said: “We don’t need to be reciting the 2004 election, as much as President Bush would like that to happen. This election is about him and his policies.” > > “ **What Senator Kerry said was inappropriate,** ” she added. > > Clinton also said, “I believe we can’t let it divert us from looking at the issues that are at stake in our country. We do need a new policy in Iraq.” From : [http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=N01412334&WTmodLoc=World-R5-Alertnet-2](http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=N01412334&WTmodLoc=World-R5-Alertnet-2) > [@](#): > > Democratic Rep. Harold Ford Jr., embroiled in a close Tennessee Senate race with Republican Bob Corker, criticized Kerry but said there were bigger issues. > > “ **Whatever the intent, Senator Kerry was wrong to say what he said.** ” Ford said in a statement. “However, Senator Kerry’s words don’t alter the fact that the stay-the-course strategy pursued by President Bush and supported by Bob Corker isn’t working.” Bolding mine in both quotes. Are all the folks registered as Republican, who say they are upset, lying? Are only the Dems telling the truth? Is the incident being played for all it’s worth? You betcha. But Kerry only has himself to blame. Karl Rove didn’t make Kerry flub his lines. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=14)