# Kerry's Botched Joke **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631 "2006-10-31T19:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/402 "2006-11-02T21:31:01Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Which he managed to do without once using a word like “troops”. Just as I said, an inference solidly based on an innuendo, buttressed by presumption. And if he didn’t deliberatly insult anyone, then what is all the hysteria about, unless it as I diagnosed: desperation. [/QUOTE] The hysteria is a product of the game of gotcha that politics has become. Do you really think Trent Lott yearns for the days of slavery? It is the atmosphere we have wrought. The temperature gets turned up when one side INSISTS that something be taken one way and only one way, and that anyone who disagrees is a liar, dishonest, blah blah blah. Some of it has been in this thread. And I don’t think you would proscribe to the line of thinking that the only way for an object of a sentence to be understood is for one specific word to be used. I mean, sheesh, even Kerry admits he misspoke. That means that the words that were there were insufficient to convey his intended meaning. The possibility that those words might construe another meaning is not all that surprising, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/403 "2006-11-02T21:34:30Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I mean, sheesh, even Kerry admits he misspoke. That means that the words that were there were insufficient to convey his intended meaning. The possibility that those words might construe another meaning is not all that surprising, is it? [/QUOTE] So why does that require an apology? If a reasonable explanation is offered, shouldn’t those offended say say, “Oh. That’s very different. Never mind” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/404 "2006-11-02T21:39:21Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] The hysteria is a product of the game of gotcha that politics has become. Do you really think Trent Lott yearns for the days of slavery? It is the atmosphere we have wrought. The temperature gets turned up when one side INSISTS that something be taken one way and only one way, and that anyone who disagrees is a liar, dishonest, blah blah blah. Some of it has been in this thread. [/quote] For the record, I thought the Tent Lott flap was overblown too and said so at the time. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/405 "2006-11-02T21:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] And your opinion of Iraqis who have taken up arms to resist the foreign invader & occupier, how does that fit into all this? [/QUOTE] I don’t expect Iraqis to support our troops like WE ought to support our troops. I expect Iraqis to support Iraqi troops. I think Iraqis (at least those labelled insurgents) are doing what they feel necessary to protect “thier” country from the invading infadel. In reality what they are, are murdering cowards using fear, violence, and guerilla tactics to injure, maim and kill everybody they can, to strike enough fear into the hearts of the people who actually WANT what the US and the “coalition” can eventually provide. I think the average Iraqi is no different from the average American, in that he wants a safe, quiet, prosperous place to live, work and raise kids, and despite what’s happening now, Saddam wasn’t giving that to them either, and IMHO, I would rather fight to the death than live under a tyrant. All that said. We shouldn’t be there. We never should have gone there. It was a gigantic bloody mistake, based on what I think was a witches brew of arrogance, ignorance and really bad intel. Now that we’re there though, we’ve got to clean house. It sucks, yes, but they’re doing what’s necessary. More often than not military missions are unpopular, because, just like police, soldiers have to do bad things to people to restore order to a situation that is bad and getting worse. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/406 "2006-11-02T21:52:32Z")
I think what everyone’s all out of joint about, at least what tweaked me about the comments anyhow, is how combative he got after it was pointed out. He could have defused the entire flap by saying as soon as it was pointed out… “Wow, geez guys, that sounded bad. I meant to say that you get YOUR COUNTRY stuck in Iraq, because I think Bush’s policy blows, I really didn’t mean to insult my brothers and sisters in uniform, sorry about that, really” Instead, he got assholish, elitist and kinda republican and said, in effect “you know what I meant, don’t be stupid” when it was clear that not everybody knew what he meant. A little humility goes a long way. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/407 "2006-11-02T22:05:29Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] I think what everyone’s all out of joint about, at least what tweaked me about the comments anyhow, is how combative he got after it was pointed out. He could have defused the entire flap by saying as soon as it was pointed out… “Wow, geez guys, that sounded bad. I meant to say that you get YOUR COUNTRY stuck in Iraq, because I think Bush’s policy blows, I really didn’t mean to insult my brothers and sisters in uniform, sorry about that, really” Instead, he got assholish, elitist and kinda republican and said, in effect “you know what I meant, don’t be stupid” when it was clear that not everybody knew what he meant. A little humility goes a long way. [/QUOTE] Kerry tries and fails to act like Bill on FoxNews. Hillary C. smiles. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/408 "2006-11-02T22:18:48Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] So why does that require an apology? If a reasonable explanation is offered, shouldn’t those offended say say, “Oh. That’s very different. Never mind” [/QUOTE] If I meant to say that your wife is beautiful and wind up convoluting it and saying you’re wife is less than beautiful, don’t you think I should apologize for mishandling the words? The words that came out of his mouth offended some people. That is a fact to all able to step back one inch and see this for what it is. He is responsible for that, no one else. And if a reasonable explanation is offered, that should pretty much be the end of it. But for him to insist that his words didn’t offend someone is ridiculous. As I, and others have said a few times in this thread, if he didn’t ratchet up the emotions with his absolute refusal to apologize and instead, had just apologized, he would have let the majority of steam out of the situation. Than we have the reasonableness of the explanation, for each to weigh on their own. I have no use for Kerry. I think him a pompous ass, and equivocator, and someone (like most of Washington) who will say almost anyhting to ingratiate himself with those he sees as votes. This is the perfect punishment for him: political death bu his own mouth and pomposity. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/409 "2006-11-02T22:28:38Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] The words that came out of his mouth offended some people. [/QUOTE] I don’t buy that for a second. A lot of people PRETENDED to misunderstand it and PRETENDED to be offended, but deep down inside, they all know damn well Kerry wasn’t talking about the military. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/410 "2006-11-02T22:34:34Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] The fact is, John Kerry has spent a lot of energy in his life criticizing the troops. If he wants to be effective as a campaigner for other candidates…or for himself should the situation arise again…he would do well to remember that he has established a reputation of NOT being friendly to the military (which may or may not be earned, but that’s not really the point)… [/QUOTE] I’m really curious because you aren’t the first person in this thread to mention Kerry or democrats being unfriendly to the military. Do you consider the republican party or Bush to be friendly to the military? Do you have any evidence in the way of cites to support that Bush or the republicans have done a lot for military members or veterans? I’m curious where this whole ‘dems are unfriendly to the military’ comes from because it’s decidedly untrue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/411 "2006-11-02T22:36:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t buy that for a second. A lot of people PRETENDED to misunderstand it and PRETENDED to be offended, but deep down inside, they all know damn well Kerry wasn’t talking about the military. [/QUOTE] Many people did not hear the clip in context. As a stand-alone quote, it is easily misconstrued. I don’t, however, think that anyone posting in this thread, or any politician out there can claim that excuse. To anyone who takes the time to understand it, or has someone explain it to him, it should be obvious what Kerry was trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/412 "2006-11-02T22:40:24Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] I’m really curious because you aren’t the first person in this thread to mention Kerry or democrats being unfriendly to the military. Do you consider the republican party or Bush to be friendly to the military? Do you have any evidence in the way of cites to support that Bush or the republicans have done a lot for military members or veterans? I’m curious where this whole ‘dems are unfriendly to the military’ comes from because it’s decidedly untrue. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say anything about the Democrats. I was talking about John Kerry, specifically. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/413 "2006-11-02T22:50:06Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] I don’t expect Iraqis to support our troops like WE ought to support our troops. I expect Iraqis to support Iraqi troops. I think Iraqis (at least those labelled insurgents) are doing what they feel necessary to protect “thier” country from the invading infadel. In reality what they are, are murdering cowards using fear, violence, and guerilla tactics to injure, maim and kill everybody they can, to strike enough fear into the hearts of the people who actually WANT what the US and the “coalition” can eventually provide. [/QUOTE] You might want to rethink who a vast portion of the Sunni insurgents are targeting: [More Than Ever, Insurgents Are Targeting US Forces](http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/110106A.shtml) > [@](#): > > Baghdad - For U.S. troops, October was a month of gritty skirmishes against fighters religiously motivated to risk their lives during the holy Muslim month of Ramadan. > > October’s death toll, the highest for American forces in nearly two years, came during a period without conventional battles or catastrophic helicopter crashes. > > Rather, the 103 troops killed in Baghdad and across Iraq were victims of a steady onslaught of assaults, primarily by their longtime nemeses, Sunni Arab insurgents. > > The number of attacks on American forces increased in October to unprecedented levels, U.S. military officials said. > > “There has been a much more considered effort to specifically target coalition and Iraqi security forces,” Army Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, the spokesman for U.S.-led forces in Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad as the month wore on. “There has been a steady increase in the number of attacks specifically against security forces.” Remember that prior to whatever the name of the “secure Baghdad” operation was launched in late Aug/early Sept, US troops were mostly hunkered down in their bases, doing little else than training Iraqis and securing job sites. But now that they’ve come out of their holes… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/414 "2006-11-02T23:10:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t buy that for a second. A lot of people PRETENDED to misunderstand it and PRETENDED to be offended, but deep down inside, they all know damn well Kerry wasn’t talking about the military. [/QUOTE] Well, since you’re so insistent upon this, I’m sure you have some proof. You know, proof that the words coming out of all their mouths are lies. I mean, I doubt you would claim to have a greater handle on their thoughts than those expresed in the words they choose. So I’ll look forward to those cites. Some proof. Alternatively, a copy of your Mind Reading Certificate from the X-Man Academy will suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/415 "2006-11-02T23:17:06Z")
I don’t think one needs to be a mindreader to know the pundits are full of shit and that politicians lie like rugs. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/416 "2006-11-02T23:30:53Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Alternatively, a copy of your Mind Reading Certificate from the X-Man Academy will suffice. [/QUOTE] Xavier Institute of Higher Learning. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/417 "2006-11-02T23:36:47Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Xavier Institute of Higher Learning. 😉 [/QUOTE] I thunk on it, but it would not come. Much appreciated. **Dio** , take note, the top of the Certificate must read: Xavier Institute of Higher Learning. Anything else would most likely be fake. And it better have the Official Seal, too. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/418 "2006-11-02T23:52:52Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Do you really think Trent Lott yearns for the days of slavery? [/QUOTE] No, but it can’t be denied, and there can be no misunderstanding, that he said that things would be better if the strict segregationist had prevailed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/419 "2006-11-02T23:54:24Z")
My cite is that the notion of Kerry (himself a decorated combat veteran…unlike Bush or Cheney) intentionally insulting the troops is so absurd and unbelievable that no one with any intellectual honesty could possibly really believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/420 "2006-11-02T23:58:12Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] No, but it can’t be denied, and there can be no misunderstanding, that he said that things would be better if the strict segregationist had prevailed. [/QUOTE] Also, it can’t be denied that Bush said he never stops thinking about ways to harm our country and our people. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/421 "2006-11-03T00:02:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Also, it can’t be denied that Bush said he never stops thinking about ways to harm our country and our people. [/QUOTE] I don’t get it. Are you saying that Lott was being ironic in his remarks at the testimonial to Thurmond? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=22)