# Kerry's Botched Joke **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631 "2006-10-31T19:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/522 "2006-11-05T07:00:10Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] Um, okee-dokee. I promise to stop bashing the man I have yet to start bashing. Or something. BTW, do you understand that this corker of a sentence that you provided supports the interpretation that Kerry’s comments were offensive? [/QUOTE] Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/523 "2006-11-05T11:26:08Z")
[QUOTE=justwannano] Huh? [/QUOTE] You said this: > [@](#): > > So Sir , as I take a deep breath and slowly back out of this thread I certainly hope you and others who would bash a man who is reminding college students that they may indeed get to see Iraq first hand would shut your mouths for a while and think over your comments before jumping to conclusions. If Kerry was reminding students that they may end up in Iraq–that is what you’re saying, right?–then you agree with those who took offence. IOW, the comment was not a reference to Bush’s incompetence, it was a warning to the students present. BTW, that’s not my take. I’m just pointing out that your rush to defend Senator Kerry confirms the naysayers’ original impressions. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/524 "2006-11-05T23:30:18Z")
Dare I ask one more time why so much hay is being made of a gaffed line from a guy who’s neither an election-year candidate nor an official political leader? Other than the obvious right-wing efforts to keep this issue in the spotlight, of course. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/525 "2006-11-05T23:33:57Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] Dare I ask one more time why so much hay is being made of a gaffed line from a guy who’s neither an election-year candidate nor an official political leader? Other than the obvious right-wing efforts to keep this issue in the spotlight, of course. [/QUOTE] I dunno, but it had been twelve hours since the last post to this ridiculous “discussion,” around 24 since the last actual on-topic posts, and it was creeping down the front page before you dragged it back up, again. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/526 "2006-11-06T02:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] Dare I ask one more time why so much hay is being made of a gaffed line from a guy who’s neither an election-year candidate nor an official political leader? Other than the obvious right-wing efforts to keep this issue in the spotlight, of course. [/QUOTE] Mainly because it pisses you off. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/527 "2006-11-06T02:41:20Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] You said this:If Kerry was reminding students that they may end up in Iraq–that is what you’re saying, right?–then you agree with those who took offence. IOW, the comment was not a reference to Bush’s incompetence, it was a warning to the students present. BTW, that’s not my take. I’m just pointing out that your rush to defend Senator Kerry confirms the naysayers’ original impressions. [/QUOTE] No. Just my impression about what did come out of his mouth. What he meant was apparently something else. Those who supposedly took offense were either the nitpickers who crowd around posts like this one impressing each other with their english language prowess careing little about what was meant or those trying to gain an advantage for thier party by purposely twisting what was said. nkay? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/528 "2006-11-06T09:33:29Z")
[QUOTE=justwannano] Those who supposedly took offense were either the nitpickers who crowd around posts like this one impressing each other with their english language prowess careing little about what was meant or those trying to gain an advantage for thier party by purposely twisting what was said. nkay? [/QUOTE] If that was directed at me then, man, you really knocked the crap out of that straw man. Nicely done! ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/529 "2006-11-06T12:15:26Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Luci, one thing you’ve not commented on: in order to believe that he was, in fact, referring to Bush, you have to believe that Kerry intentionally wanted to draw attention to the President’s mediocre performance at Yale, which was slightly better than his own. **Why the hell would he do that? Do you really think he would?** [bolding magellan’s] [/QUOTE] Your non-evidenced assertion that Kerry was or would have been referring to Dubya’s grades or academic performace is a strawman. He was instead referring to Dubya’s _ignorance_, which is rarely indicated by one’s GPA. The latter by far makes the most sense given the context, especially because most people accept the meme that Bush is ignorant and find it funny. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/530 "2006-11-06T13:59:33Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] Your non-evidenced assertion that Kerry was or would have been referring to Dubya’s grades or academic performace is a strawman. He was instead referring to Dubya’s _ignorance_, which is rarely indicated by one’s GPA. [/QUOTE] So when Kerry said he was going to talk about education and homework, he was not talking about grades and academic performance? And, when addressing an audience of students, “you” doesn’t mean students. 😃 > [@rjung](#): > > Dare I ask one more time why so much hay is being made of a gaffed line from a guy who’s neither an election-year candidate nor an official political leader? Apparently it takes a lot of pages for the Usual Suspects to convince themselves that black is white. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/531 "2006-11-06T14:37:07Z")
“…a lot of pages…” Heh. Ordinarily, be all over that straight line. But, today, I’m in _such_ a good mood… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/532 "2006-11-06T16:12:39Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] Your non-evidenced assertion that Kerry was or would have been referring to Dubya’s grades or academic performace is a strawman. He was instead referring to Dubya’s _ignorance_, which is rarely indicated by one’s GPA. The latter by far makes the most sense given the context, especially because most people accept the meme that Bush is ignorant and find it funny. [/QUOTE] Oh, and what evidence—what proof—do you have that my interpretation is wrong and yours right? Correct, none. Try to be a little honest here and accept that there is not 100% clear proof for either position. And I have given quite a few reasons why I hold to my interpretation. Feel free to review them and comment. These empty assertions of yours are tiresome. Why don’t you start with some questions I posed to **Luci**. Since he chooses not to answer them, perhaps you can offer sensible explanations for what I and others see as a nonsensical interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/533 "2006-11-06T16:14:57Z")
Oops. Hit submit instead of preview. Here is the post again with the questions attached. [QUOTE=ambushed] Your non-evidenced assertion that Kerry was or would have been referring to Dubya’s grades or academic performace is a strawman. He was instead referring to Dubya’s _ignorance_, which is rarely indicated by one’s GPA. The latter by far makes the most sense given the context, especially because most people accept the meme that Bush is ignorant and find it funny. [/QUOTE] Oh, and what evidence—what proof—do you have that my interpretation is wrong and yours right? Correct, none. Try to be a little honest here and accept that there is not 100% clear proof for either position. And I have given quite a few reasons why I hold to my interpretation. Feel free to review them and comment. These empty assertions of yours are tiresome. Why don’t you start with some questions I posed to **Luci**. Since he chooses not to answer them, perhaps you can offer sensible explanations for what I and others see as a nonsensical interpretation. [QUOTE=magellan01] Luci, one thing you’ve not commented on: in order to believe that he was, in fact, referring to Bush, you have to believe that Kerry intentionally wanted to draw attention to the President’s mediocre performance at Yale, which was slightly better than his own. Why the hell would he do that? Do you really think he would? Please answer that. Also, please explain the logic of this supposed botch joke. Bush is stuck in Iraq because he didn’t do well? “Take that to heart kids, God forbid you graduate Yale and then get an MBA from Harvard. If those horrorible failings should befall you (just like they did BUsh), you might just wind up the most powerful person in the world. So buckle down and don’t let that happen to you!!!” Nope. Assuming that whatever he intended to say was going to make sense, that certainly ain’t it. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/534 "2006-11-06T16:31:41Z")
No, you don’t. If we assume that the joke highlights GeeDub’s abysmal performance as a President rather than his mediocre performance as a student, your question vanishes. Besides which, The Man Who Fell Up has frequently joked about his lackluster performance as a student, pointing out that a “C” student can do pretty well. Why should he do that? Why not? Whazza big hairy ass deal? You seem to feel you’ve pointed out a fatal flaw and a gaping wound, when, in reality, it isn’t worthy of much more than a glance and a shrug. All of your interpretations are based on the same set of assumptions, and your assumptions are then proven by your interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/535 "2006-11-06T16:45:26Z")
Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Is too! Is not! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Here ya go, guys. Why don’t you each take a handful of these and just use them for the next week. It’ll save typing and electrons. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/536 "2006-11-06T16:47:55Z")
Duck season. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/537 "2006-11-06T16:50:07Z")
He started it! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/538 "2006-11-06T17:06:16Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Duck season. [/QUOTE] Whittington season! Fire! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/539 "2006-11-06T17:12:00Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] No, you don’t. If we assume that the joke highlights GeeDub’s abysmal performance as a President rather than his mediocre performance as a student, your question vanishes. [/QUOTE] Only if common sense vanishes with it. But let’s go with that for now. To paraphrase JFnK: “Let’s talk about education. You should study hard and do well in school. If you do, great things can happen. If not, you might end up President of the United States—with a degree from Yale and an MBA from Harvard.” :eek: Oh, the horrors! You know, amazingly, this would be an interpretation that should merit him more derision than what I think is a woefully more likely interpretation. But we can go with this, if you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/540 "2006-11-06T19:37:24Z")
The two casualties of this whole mess are Kerry and McCain. Kerry, because there has been proven to be no shortage of people who are willing to believe the worst of him no matter how illogical and preposterous. If you believe that the guy that volunteered for two tours of duty in Vietnam, faced enemy fire and was wounded but is still a coward compared to the guy that used his influence to get into the NG and then failed to complete his obligation and then lied about not completing his obligation is a hero, then I’m afraid there is no reasoning with you. McCain has shown himself to be a political whore. He stabbed his former friend Kerry in the back. Since he isn’t stupid enough to believe that Kerry actually meant to dis the troops, he has shown that integrity is something to be abandoned in order to appeal to the stupidest of the electorate. Of course his caving on the torture bill and getting his lips superglued to Bush’s butt tipped us off long ago, but this confirms it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/541 "2006-11-06T20:05:44Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] The two casualties of this whole mess are Kerry and McCain. Kerry, because there has been proven to be no shortage of people who are willing to believe the worst of him no matter how illogical and preposterous. If you believe that the guy that volunteered for two tours of duty in Vietnam, faced enemy fire and was wounded but is still a coward compared to the guy that used his influence to get into the NG and then failed to complete his obligation and then lied about not completing his obligation is a hero, then I’m afraid there is no reasoning with you. [/QUOTE] Now, now. Let’s not paint an incomplete picture. Kerry tried three times, I believe it was, to get a deferment. When it wasn’t going to happen, he did the wise thing and signed up so he could at least control which branch of service he’d be in. Also, for the record, his first tour was not engaging the enemy. The second one, yes. Good for him for wanting to be in the thick of it. But, in my opinion, I think he realized that it would be difficult to cultivate hero status without being in danger, and that would make it a little difficult to follow in the footsteps of the the truly heroic JFK who made it to The White House. Not that I necessarily fault him for this. I think that I might have done the same thing if I was in that situation. (Clarification: as far as seeking out the battle, _not_ how he got out of it.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=28)