# Kerry's Botched Joke **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631 "2006-10-31T19:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/82 "2006-10-31T22:19:01Z")
It’s a stupid joke either way, but if he was really talking about the troops, the joke only makes sense if there’s a draft on or under consideration. Otherwise, poor students don’t necessarily wind up in Iraq, but could just as easily be working at the local fast food joint or sanitation department. My initial reaction was that he was talking about the troops. But I’m going to hesitantly call this one for Kerry and credit his explanation – while he might have been dumb enough to crack a joke at the troops’ expense, I can’t believe any senator would be dumb enough to simultaneously imply that a draft might be in the works. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/83 "2006-10-31T22:21:20Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Then you \*are \* being manipulated, and you are going to feel really silly when you see his comments in context. I’ve heard it, and was _Bush blah blah, Bush blah blah, stuck in Iraq Bush blah blah_. It makes no sense to interpret it _Bush blah blah, Bush blah blah, The troops are stoopid, Bush blah blah_. [/QUOTE] Do you have a link to a transcript? If he indeed was talking about Bush a lot, and this was inserted in the midst of that discussion, then it would lend credence to the idea that he meant it as a joke about Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/84 "2006-10-31T22:23:33Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I do. Kerry was no better than Bush as a student. So it wouldn’t make any sense for him to make a crack about Bush’s academic record. [/quote] It doesn’t make sense to call Bush an idiot? Since when? > [@](#): > > Not to mention the fact that politicians of Presidential caliber just do not launch such personal attacks. No, they attack the troops instead, right? I take it you expect Kerry will insult Mom and apple pie next week? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/85 "2006-10-31T22:25:48Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Oh the irony…botching a line while trying to poke fun at the ultimate line-botcher. [/QUOTE] It’s like a political **Gaudere** ’s Law. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/86 "2006-10-31T22:27:16Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] OK, let me explain this to you. Members of Congress, and **especially** presidential candidates, and \*\*especially \*\*former military guys, are supposed to hold up service in the military as a **high honor** , and an **act of courage**. It is supposed to be something to be proud of, and something you’re proud you’re son or daughter chooses. They’re not supposed to characterize it as what happens to you if you flunk out of school. Is it that hard to understand? [/QUOTE] But it IS something that can happen to you if you flunk out of school. What’s wrong with a little honesty? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/87 "2006-10-31T22:28:45Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] It doesn’t make sense to call Bush an idiot? Since when? [/QUOTE] He didn’t call Bush an idiot, he called him a poor student. Which, in fairness, Kerry was as well. Kerry might be judged as overall smarter or better educated, but his GPA was almost identical to Bush’s. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/88 "2006-10-31T22:29:06Z")
After listening to it several times, I think the key word was “homework.” Kerry was trying to make a joke about Bush not doing his homework on Iraq. He just didn’t tell it very well. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/89 "2006-10-31T22:31:56Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Isn’t that also “Lurch”? [/QUOTE] Jaws was played in the Bond movies by Richard Kiel. The original Lurch from TV was Ted Cassidy. Carel Struycken played the Lurch character in the Addams Family movies. From a casual reading of the OP, I thought Kerry was referring to Bush. But maybe it sounded different in context. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/90 "2006-10-31T22:32:37Z")
[Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=390680) is the thread from Bill Frist saying we should surrender to the Taliban. Kerry’s comment won’t have any effect on the election. It will make news on Fox and probably be talked about on the right wing talk shows. No effect on the election. I can’t imagine this having enough legs to make it more than one day ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/91 "2006-10-31T22:33:38Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Do you have a link to a transcript? If he indeed was talking about Bush a lot, and this was inserted in the midst of that discussion, then it would lend credence to the idea that he meant it as a joke about Bush. [/QUOTE] No, I don’t, but it was on CNN, so I would expect a video of it in context will be available shortly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/92 "2006-10-31T22:34:01Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] But it IS something that can happen to you if you flunk out of school. What’s wrong with a little honesty? [/QUOTE] I can’t make it any clearer than I already have. Perhaps you should ask your wife to explain it to you. When you’re having dinner at grandma’s house, and you don’t like what she cooked, do you **go out of your way** to tell her that the food sucked, even if she didn’t ask you? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/93 "2006-10-31T22:35:36Z")
Okay, everybody, let’s take a deep breath and calm down for a minute. Kerry’s comment was either a “Bush bash” or a “troop bash”. So which was it? Arguments for a Bush bash: 1. It was in the middle of a speech trashing Bush, and thus from context was clearly directed at Bush. 2. Millions of people make jokes about how dumb Bush is every day. I can’t recall hearing any recent joke about soldiers being dumb. Thus when you make a dumb joke, people are automatically likely to associate it with Bush. 3. No big-time politician would ever insult the troops, but they insult each other constantly. 4. Kerry in particular would not insult folks in the Army because he was in the Army. Arguments for a troop bash: 5. The only one suggested thus far is that Kerry may have assumed that his audience was entirely anti-war and thus anti-military. But that doesn’t hold water. If he made such an assumption (and there’s no reason to think he did), then he’d also be assuming that his audience was anti-Bush, so he might as well toss them a Bush joke. > [@What the... ?!?!](#): > > How do you rationalize that Kerry’s level of education and grades are comparable to Bush’… in fact his grades are lower. I don’t, seeing as that one rationalizes decisions or opinions, not facts. You can’t rationalize that the sky is blue. Now if you’re asking me to explain why Kerry has that level of education, I really can’t say, not being an expert on the life of John Kerry. Perhaps he ignored basic grammar and punctuation. In any case, having a lower GPA in college doesn’t prove Kerry stupider; it may just prove that he challenged himself more. > [@John Mace](#): > > Let’s not get carried away about this. It was a minor faux pas, and I can’t see it making a difference in this election. It would be nice. Of course the Republican media has harped on an imaginary _faux pas_ from Al Gore every day for the past seven years, so there’s no reason why they wouldn’t flog a real one equally hard. I doubt it’ll affect swing voters much, however. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/94 "2006-10-31T22:35:58Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] Kerry’s comment won’t have any effect on the election. It will make news on Fox and probably be talked about on the right wing talk shows. No effect on the election. I can’t imagine this having enough legs to make it more than one day [/QUOTE] How much do you want to bet that it won’t be on CNN and MSNBC? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/95 "2006-10-31T22:38:46Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=390680) is the thread from Bill Frist saying we should surrender to the Taliban. [/QUOTE] Nope, he doesn’t say that. That was **rjung** ’s distorted interpretation. At best, he’s saying we should accept their surrender by bringing them into the gov’t. He doesn’t say turn the government over to them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/96 "2006-10-31T22:45:24Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Are you sure it isn’t Herman Munster (without the make-up, though)? [/QUOTE] No, I think it’s [Stephen Fry](http://www.trainingreference.co.uk/graphics/stephen_fry.jpg) after a partial lobotomy. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/97 "2006-10-31T22:49:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] After listening to it several times, I think the key word was “homework.” Kerry was trying to make a joke about Bush not doing his homework on Iraq. He just didn’t tell it very well. [/QUOTE] The CNN website has a video link… > [@](#): > > You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq." He _should_ have said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if, \*_like President Bush_, you don’t **do your homework** , you get stuck in Iraq.” [/quote] You make the call. Myself, I think he meant to say the second, but he flubbed it. Hehe. As a career politician, what a boob. Let’s make him an ambassador to some important country were precise meaning is critical. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/98 "2006-10-31T22:50:57Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] The CNN website has a video link… He _should_ have said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if, **like President Bush** , you don’t **do your homework** , you get stuck in Iraq.” [/quote] You make the call. Myself, I think he meant to say the second, but he flubbed it. Hehe. As a career politician, what a boob. Let’s make him an ambassador to some important country were precise meaning is critical. 😛 [/QUOTE] Bah! Flubbed my _italics_ and **bolding** coding… sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/99 "2006-10-31T22:53:17Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] He didn’t call Bush an idiot, he called him a poor student. [/QUOTE] The implication of calling him a poor student is that he stupid, and that you would have to be stupid to lead this country into the mess in Iraq. As noted, Kerry wasn’t a good student either, so there’s more than just grade-critiquing going on. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/100 "2006-10-31T22:56:53Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] How much do you want to bet that it won’t be on CNN and MSNBC? [/QUOTE] It will make CNN. It is on their web page now. However, it won’t make it for more than a day unless the Pubbies can spin this one hard. Larry King is scheduled to have Steve Bridges on as a guest. I’m sure O’Reilly and the other Fox blowhards will try to spin this as the insult of the century. I think it is far too little too late. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/101 "2006-10-31T22:58:56Z")
I think the key thing about this whole issue is that the MSM is covering what should be a footnote story with headlines and extensive coverage. I think that they realized that their liberal bias was going to backfire on the Democrats. Why else would they violate their liberal mandate and blanket the airwaves and pages with this thing? My question: Will coverage of this gaffe by Kerry backfire on the Republicans? And will that backfire subsequently backfire on the Democrats? And will we end up with a cascading series of backfires, resulting in a GD thread questioning how the whole thing will render the Democrats completely irrelevant? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=6)