# Kerry's Botched Joke **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631 "2006-10-31T19:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/102 "2006-10-31T23:02:47Z")
[QUOTE=DMC] Kerry was also a solder, so it wouldn’t make sense for him to call soldiers stupid (aside from being politically suicidal, which I find hard to believe). [/QUOTE] Well, he was an _officer_, if you want to be picky about it. And it’s always struck me as likely that he was the type of officer who _thought_ enlisted personnel were stupid. However, as I said before, I do tend towards believing him that his crack was directed at Bush rather than towards the troops. After all, even if he thinks that enlisted people are stupid, he also knows from experience that officers (college-educated and, in his assumed estimation, smarter than the troops) do go to war. **brickbacon**? What are your credentials to make the comments you have made? Other than the link you posted about test scores. How many military people have you known? Because my personal experience with military folk has been extensive (see below) and I disagree with you. In my experience, the percentage of really bright military people I’ve met is very close to the percentage of really bright civilians I have met. Similarly, I’ve met about the same percentage of stupid military people as I have stupid civilians. My military bonafides – spent the first 14 years of my life as a Navy brat. Spent 6 years active duty. Was married for 15 years to a sailor on active duty. I have spent the majority of my 46 years of life in cities with large military populations. I have known hundreds of military people – mostly Navy and Marine Corps, but a number of Army, Air Force and National Guard folks, too. This time I’m going to preview so I won’t look as stupid as Kerry and/ or Bush when my post posts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/103 "2006-10-31T23:07:22Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] The implication of calling him a poor student is that he stupid, and that you would have to be stupid to lead this country into the mess in Iraq. As noted, Kerry wasn’t a good student either, so there’s more than just grade-critiquing going on. [/QUOTE] Again, I think the crack was supposed to be that Bush didn’t do his “_homework_,” and that Kerry just really botched the delivery. Hands up, how many people are going to change their minds and vote Republican because of this? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/104 "2006-10-31T23:15:34Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] The implication of calling him a poor student is that he stupid, and that you would have to be stupid to lead this country into the mess in Iraq. As noted, Kerry wasn’t a good student either, so there’s more than just grade-critiquing going on. [/QUOTE] No, not stupid, just not taking advantage of what education has to offer. That’s what the quote says. He talks about studying and doing homework, not about native intelligence. It’s not a smart/stupid thing, it’s an educated/uneducated thing. ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/105 "2006-10-31T23:16:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Hands up, how many people are going to change their minds and vote Republican because of this? I’m quite sure this will change no minds whatsoever. There will be fussing and fuming for several days, or maybe even weeks. Some folks (who dislike Kerry anyway) will hold onto it for longer – we’ll get to hear all about it again for sure if Kerry runs for President again. Possibly even during the primaries from some of Kerry’s fellow Democrats who are opposing him. But change people’s minds? I very much doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/106 "2006-10-31T23:23:32Z")
What gets me is Cheney and Bush sliming the patriotism of the Democrats and anyone associated with them and getting away with it, not so much as a hint of outrage. And then Kerry steps on his dick in public, and they are rolling around on the ground and screaming their heads off. Unless, of course, it is sheer, straw-clutching desperation. When Bush and Cheney make these remarks, they know they are lies. They _know_, as we know, that AlQ is not the dominant force in the Iraq insurgency. They also know without a shred of doubt that John Kerry had not the _slightest_ intention of dissing the troops. And they look us square in the eye, piss down our necks and tell us its raining. So I don’t know if Buch and Cheney are stupid, I do know that they have not so much as a shred of integrity. Either one would felch a goat during half time at the Super Bowl if it would mean they keep control of Congress. Want to see Karl Rove crap his pants? Sneak up behind him and whisper “subpoena”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/107 "2006-10-31T23:29:51Z")
Yeah. Why can’t these politicians quit playing politics??? The act like they’re fighting over who will control the most powerful nation on earth or something. ---
**Author:** ![sweathog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@sweathog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweathog)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/108 "2006-10-31T23:41:32Z")
Doesnt it seem like everytime Kerry say’s something ‘newsworthy’, for the next 3 or 4 nights all we hear on the news shows is, “What I think he was saying was…” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/109 "2006-10-31T23:44:07Z")
OK, I saw a better clip, one that went on past his remark (on FoxNews, btw). Kerry laughed, the students laughed. I’m convinced he was talking about Bush. No way would he or the students lauch about the troops being “stuck in Iraq”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/110 "2006-10-31T23:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=sweathog] Doesnt it seem like everytime Kerry say’s something ‘newsworthy’, for the next 3 or 4 nights all we hear on the news shows is, “What I think he was saying was…” [/QUOTE] I can’t think of a single other instance where anything like that has happened with Kerry. You’re probably thinking of Bush. He’s always the one eho needs an interpreter/apologist/revisionist everytime he opens his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/111 "2006-10-31T23:50:36Z")
If I posted a “bash”…Bush this, Bush that, Bush teh suxxor…for a couple hundred words, and ended with a lame joke about being “stuck in Iraq”, how many of you would assume I was talking about soldiers? What is so obscure about the construct “Bush stuck in Iraq”? Bush _is_ stuck, caught between Iraq and a hard place, and lying about the opposition is all they’ve got. Watch the full thing. Its “Bush this, Bush that” and doesn’t even mention soldiers (to the best of my recall). The edited version (which you can see tonight on _Hannity and His Bitch_) shows only the very few seconds of the remark itself, and clips off abruptly without any audience response. Think about that for a moment. If Kerry’s remark is such a blatant slam on Our Heroes, how come the crowd doesn’t gasp in horror and dismay. If its everything the Bushiviks claim it is, where are the boos? Crowd doesn’t laugh, its a mangled line. But if it clearly and unequivocally maligns the troops, how come the crowd on the scene doesn’t get that, but Bush does? ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/112 "2006-10-31T23:51:03Z")
I just spoke with a friend of mine (recently retired after 26 years in the military; very bright; and pretty conservative) who had heard the whole speech. She said that it was _very_ clear, in context, that Kerry was making a reference to Bush. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/113 "2006-10-31T23:53:15Z")
Oh, forgot. If the remark is as ghastly as advertised, then the audience would surely been shocked and horrified. And that shock and horror would have political propaganda gold, manna from Heaven, and you would see it _every time_! They would _never_ trim off such a reaction, they would play it over and over like Dennis Miller and the “Dean scream”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/114 "2006-11-01T00:13:52Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] The edited version (which you can see tonight on _Hannity and His Bitch_) shows only the very few seconds of the remark itself, and clips off abruptly without any audience response. Think about that for a moment. [/QUOTE] Well, I just watched in 3 shows: PBS News Hour-- only showed a transcript, no mention of the laugh MSNBC (Hardball)-- showed the edited version, no laughing Fox (Brit Hume)-- showed that Kerry and the students laughed n.b.: Matthews said he thought the remark was about Bush, Hume thought it was about the troops. Lerher didn’t say either way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/115 "2006-11-01T00:23:26Z")
All well and good, **John** , one really wouldn’t expect much of a laugh since it wasn’t much of a joke, even if it had been delivered right. But if Kerry had _deliberately and clearly_ dissed the soldiers, what audience reaction would you expect? Wouldn’t you expect shock, horror and dismay? Regardless of the political makeup of the audience? Hear any? So, apparently, what is undeniably clear to Bushivik scum suckers wasn’t clear to the audience at hand. Let me put it this way: if I launched on a long diatribe about what a jerk Kerry is, and finished off with a joke about Yalies being dumfuks, would you assume that I was talking about Bush? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/116 "2006-11-01T00:25:49Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] They would _never_ trim off such a reaction, they would play it over and over like Dennis Miller and the “Dean scream”. [/QUOTE] Which was also taken out of context. No one in the room could hear him well. It was the shotgun mike which picked that up so clearly. Damn that liberal media! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/117 "2006-11-01T00:26:51Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Nope, he doesn’t say that. That was **rjung** ’s distorted interpretation. At best, he’s saying we should accept their surrender by bringing them into the gov’t. [/QUOTE] Wow, and you accuse _me_ of a “distorted representation”? > [@](#): > > [_International Herald-Tribune:_](http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/ap/2006/10/02/asia/AS_GEN_Afghanistan_Frist.php) U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Monday that the Afghan guerrilla war can never be won militarily and called for efforts to bring the Taliban and their supporters into the Afghan government. > > The Tennessee Republican said he had learned from briefings that Taliban fighters were too numerous and had too much popular support to be defeated by military means. > > “You need to bring them into a more transparent type of government,” Frist said during a brief visit to a U.S. and Romanian military base in the southern Taliban stronghold of Qalat. “And if that’s accomplished we’ll be successful.” I’d ask you how you get “accept their surrender” from “can never be won militarily,” “too numerous,” and “had too much popular support,” but I’m not up for seven round of Bush apologist vertigo today. \ ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/118 "2006-11-01T00:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] PBS News Hour-- only showed a transcript, no mention of the laugh MSNBC (Hardball)-- showed the edited version, no laughing Fox (Brit Hume)-- showed that Kerry and the students laughed [/QUOTE] CBS - “John Kerry’s joke fell flat.” They showed only the line, no audience reaction and no mention of the reaction beyond the implication in the quote. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/119 "2006-11-01T00:50:06Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] All well and good, **John** , one really wouldn’t expect much of a laugh since it wasn’t much of a joke, even if it had been delivered right. But if Kerry had _deliberately and clearly_ dissed the soldiers, what audience reaction would you expect? Wouldn’t you expect shock, horror and dismay? Regardless of the political makeup of the audience? [/QUOTE] Read post #109. I already answered that question (call me psychic). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/120 "2006-11-01T01:14:36Z")
Well, good for you! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/121 "2006-11-01T01:17:13Z")
Here is the [AP account of Kerry’s speech](http://www.examiner.com/a-372281~White_House__Kerry_trade_barbs_after_California_remark.html): > [@](#): > > Kerry opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, saying at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now “lives in a state of denial.” > > He then said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=7)