# Kerry's Botched Joke **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631 "2006-10-31T19:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/122 "2006-11-01T01:31:04Z")
Wow, what a contrast this place is to the conservative blogs - they’re talking about practically NOTHING but this, printing e-mails full of outrage from the parents of troops, people from McCain to the American Legion (is that right?) saying that they just don’t believe Kerry was talking about Bush… 'Course, nothing about this says whether this’ll do anything for the election - six days isn’t a lot of time for ads to come out associating the Generic Democrat to Kerry to make a difference - but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/123 "2006-11-01T02:31:24Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] All well and good, **John** , one really wouldn’t expect much of a laugh since it wasn’t much of a joke, even if it had been delivered right. But if Kerry had _deliberately and clearly_ dissed the soldiers, what audience reaction would you expect? Wouldn’t you expect shock, horror and dismay? Regardless of the political makeup of the audience? [/QUOTE] Actually, I would not be at all surprised to see the college students laughing at the “stupidity” of Army troops–but then I went to one of the most hard-core leftist universities on the planet, so it’s possible I’m a little skewed. There is a stereotype among a lot of liberals that soldiers are typically stupid and evil.\* So I don’t think it’s that surprising that people took this very ambiguous statement as directed at the troops. It’s all a tempest in a teapot, of course, but really, what a dumb thing to say. Somebody should have caught that one. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/124 "2006-11-01T02:37:09Z")
Kerry continues to be the best thing that ever happened for the Republican Party, at least over the last 4 years. Even if his intent wasn’t to smear the troops, he just tossed a lit cig out the window while driving through a tinder box forest. Like it or not, this will be fanned into a major fire. What a maroon :smack: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/125 "2006-11-01T02:42:44Z")
[QUOTE=dangermom] …There is a stereotype among a lot of liberals that soldiers are typically stupid and evil.\*… [/QUOTE] Really. Hadn’t noticed, and I’ve been hanging out with lefties for, oh, quite some time. There is a stereotype that _war_ is stupid and evil, but we tend to think of that as being kind of obvious. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/126 "2006-11-01T02:44:59Z")
Anybody got a complete transcript? I listened, and so far as I can tell, Kerry never once referred to soldiers. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/127 "2006-11-01T02:47:16Z")
I think you’re all wrong. It was an intentional double entendre. He meant _both_ meanings. That’s why the joke was so clumsily worded, it had to fit the two meanings. The first meaning was that if you don’t study hard and graduate, you will have limited options for your career (such as the military). The second meaning was as **Dio** said. If you follow bad intelligence and plan poorly, you wind up presiding over a quagmire like Iraq. Although it’s a true and fairly witty statement, it’s politically stupid. It seems too much like troop bashing at a time when the American people are very pro-military. It might not change votes, but it will allow right wing pundits to rile up the conservative base right before the election. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/128 "2006-11-01T03:16:38Z")
Close as I can get to a transcript, thus far… [http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci\_4578034](http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_4578034) that originally covered the rally in question. The following: > [@](#): > > …Kerry charmed the crowd with tales of surfing at Mission Beach and got laughs for a series of one liners, including telling the crowd he had just returned from Texas, “Where the president used to live - now he lives in a state of denial.” > > Kerry then told the students that if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs - “If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq,” he said to a mixture of laughter and gasps… No mention of soldiers that I can detect. And there’s a couple of comments by observers at the end, neither of whom seem to have detected the shattering horror of Kerry’s remarks. Sooner or later, a transcript will appear. I got two bits says he never even mentioned soldiers. Just Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/129 "2006-11-01T03:17:12Z")
[QUOTE=Monocracy] The first meaning was that if you don’t study hard and graduate, you will have limited options for your career (such as the military). [/QUOTE] So why would he slip that in amidst [several barbs aimed at the President](http://www.examiner.com/a-372281~White_House__Kerry_trade_barbs_after_California_remark.html)? > [@](#): > > Kerry opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, saying at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now “lives in a state of denial.” > > He then said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” There is no context for a “do well in school” statement, and every context for a “Bush is so dumb he got us stuck in Iraq” statement. One makes sense, the other, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/130 "2006-11-01T03:18:16Z")
[QUOTE=dangermom] There is a stereotype among a lot of liberals that soldiers are typically stupid and evil.\* [/quote] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/131 "2006-11-01T03:20:44Z")
That should be, “do well in school **or else** ” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/132 "2006-11-01T03:25:47Z")
[QUOTE=flickster] Kerry continues to be the best thing that ever happened for the Republican Party, at least over the last 4 years. [/QUOTE] Yup. No matter how witty he may be, Kerry’s got crappy timing. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/133 "2006-11-01T03:27:16Z")
[media] American deaths are piling up at an alarming rate. There are reputable reports that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died. There is no discernable plan to get our soldiers home. We are in a war of…what? ooooohhh SHINY![/media] ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/134 "2006-11-01T03:29:31Z")
[QUOTE=Jess] I’m quite sure this will change no minds whatsoever. There will be fussing and fuming for several days, or maybe even weeks. Some folks (who dislike Kerry anyway) will hold onto it for longer – we’ll get to hear all about it again for sure if Kerry runs for President again. Possibly even during the primaries from some of Kerry’s fellow Democrats who are opposing him. But change people’s minds? I very much doubt it. [/QUOTE] But it will take up valuable media time during the last week of the campaign. That will affect turnout and a tiny percentage of swing voters. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/135 "2006-11-01T03:31:18Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] There is no context for a “do well in school” statement [/QUOTE] There doesn’t need to be context for it, it’s a paraphrase of what he actually says. “you study hard, you do your homework” = “do well in school” “if you don’t” = “or else” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@The\_Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Octagon)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/136 "2006-11-01T03:35:13Z")
[QUOTE=Jess] Anyway, upon reflection, I suspect that Kerry really was thinking of the second interpretation. After all, he knows, based on personal experience, that officers do go to war. So he was making a stab at Bush’s reputation for stupidity. Now, I have no doubt whatsoever that Kerry _thinks_ that he is smarter than Bush. However, basing that claim on their college grades and study habits was pretty weak, considering the evidence. [/QUOTE] True, but basing it on the number of times they have said something incredibly stupid in front of an audience, Kerry is trailing by a couple thousand. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/137 "2006-11-01T03:35:36Z")
Who cares what Kerry said? He probably meant Bush, but if he meant the military, it’s probably a reflection of his outdated experience. I suspect the same is true of Dio. The military of 20-40 years ago is not anything like the military of today. Long gone are the days when an infantryman was a grunt with a rifle and some basic training. I’m more interested in the assertion that soldiers in the military are on average dumber than the general population, or poorer students, or in any way inferior. In fact, from [this link](http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/demographics.htm), we find: > [@](#): > > The data shows **the force is more educated than the population at large**. Servicemembers have high school diplomas or the general equivalency diploma. **More servicemembers have some college than the typical 18- to 24-year-olds.** “To carry representativeness to the extreme, we would have to have a less-educated force or we would want a lower-aptitude force,” Gilroy said. And are they a bunch of poor people with no other options? Nope. > [@](#): > > On the socioeconomic side, the military is strongly middle class, Gilroy said. More recruits are drawn from the middle class and fewer are coming from poorer and wealthier families. Recruits from poorer families are actually underrepresented in the military, Gilroy said. > > Other trends are that the number of recruits from wealthier families is increasing, and the number of recruits from suburban areas has increased. This also tracks that young men and women from the middle class are serving in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/138 "2006-11-01T03:37:19Z")
[QUOTE=Monocracy] There doesn’t need to be context for it, it’s a paraphrase of what he actually says. “you study hard, you do your homework” = “do well in school” “if you don’t” = “or else” [/QUOTE] But why does he just drop it into the middle of a perfectly good Bush-trashing? Does that really make sense to you? It’s not a commencement speech, for chrissakes! ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/139 "2006-11-01T03:39:51Z")
I don’t get it why so many posters think he was referring to Bush. He didn’t mention Bush. It’s one thing to say “Bush is an idiot.” It’s another thing to say “American soldiers are idiots.” Kerry has said both and worse on many occasions. This time he said the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/140 "2006-11-01T03:40:04Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Yesterday Kerry said the following to a group of college students… “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” Amid criticisms from McCain and others he now claims it was a botched joke and that he was referring to Bush getting us stuck in Iraq. That argument would suggest that Kerry would have gotten us [even stucker.](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student/) So do you believe him or is he just trying to crawl out of a hole? [/QUOTE] A hole. And he’s digging it deeper and deeper and deeper… ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631/141 "2006-11-01T03:40:42Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] But why does he just drop it into the middle of a perfectly good Bush-trashing? Does that really make sense to you? It’s not a commencement speech, for chrissakes! [/QUOTE] There is no doubt it was a Bush bashing comment, but he made the comment more witty by using a double entendre rather than coming out and saying directly, “Bush followed bad intelligence and got us stuck in Iraq.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kerrys-botched-joke/378631.md?page=8)