# Kesha sues top producer Dr. Luke - 10 years of abuse **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 15, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410 "2014-10-15T16:47:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/61 "2016-02-25T20:55:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Dr. Luke is a huge music producer, many of the pop stars who have spoken out have worked with him. [Here’s an article summing up what some pop stars who have worked with him have said.](https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/how-pop-stars-who-have-worked-with-dr-luke-reacted-to-keshas-lawsuit) Several have spoken out in support of Kesha, some have declined to comment, but I haven’t heard any of his collaborators speaking out in support of him, which is not a good point to him. This isn’t Kesha accusing her old music teacher from high school of sexual abuse, and everyone is taking her side against some unknown guy. This is a producer that many people have worked with, or met with, or at least know of. Looking through your link, there seem to be all of 2 people who worked with him who expressed support for Kesha (Clarkson and Cyrus). And even at that, their comments were unspecific and it’s unclear whether they’ve found him to be a rapey sort of guy and support her accusations in that regard, or are just sympathetic - from their vantage point as entertainers - to her battle against a music producer trying to enforce his contractual rights against the performer’s “freedom”. It’s not surprising at all that no one is speaking in his defense. These days it’s very very bad to be seen as supporting a possible rapist over his ostensible victim. You have to have overwhelming evidence that the charges are bogus before you begin even hinting that just maybe the tragic victim is not all that. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/62 "2016-02-25T21:10:55Z")
Ke$ha is back. At least she’s honest about her career. It’s all about the $$$$$$$$$ I don’t know the details of her relationship with Dr. Luke. Except it made her a international music star. What happened as private individuals only they know. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/63 "2016-02-28T08:07:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I read in one of the stories that he had pressured her about lying under oath and saying he’d never done anything. If he was abusing her and in control of her career then, it’s not implausible that he could pressure or threaten her into lying under oath, and then only later she’s able to admit what really happened. > > Dr. Luke is a huge music producer, many of the pop stars who have spoken out have worked with him. [Here’s an article summing up what some pop stars who have worked with him have said.](https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/how-pop-stars-who-have-worked-with-dr-luke-reacted-to-keshas-lawsuit) Several have spoken out in support of Kesha, some have declined to comment, but I haven’t heard any of his collaborators speaking out in support of him, which is not a good point to him. This isn’t Kesha accusing her old music teacher from high school of sexual abuse, and everyone is taking her side against some unknown guy. This is a producer that many people have worked with, or met with, or at least know of. Taylor Swift donated $250,000 to Kesha to help with her legal defense, and while that is still not a huge amount to her, it’d be a big amount of money to just throw around if you thought the allegations were baseless. There are two in that link that have worked with Dr Luke [Clarkson and Luke both have reps as very stubborn](http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/record-labels/1549331/kelly-clarkson-slams-clive-davis-i-refuse-to-be-bullied) and wanting things only their own way and butted heads frequently so her crypto-comment is not all that surprising. > [@](#): > > "… you have to take direction. Kelly didn’t like it. Max and Luke were merciless in pursuit of getting the right performance for their song. Kelly got her back up, and, from her perspective, she had a horrible experience in the studio. She’d never work with them again, she said… I could not have been more thrilled… Everyone loved the end result, and I could just feel the momentum building… > > “In the meantime, before any of this transpired, Kelly had requested a meeting with me, which was scheduled for the day after the international meeting… To this point I had never really spent much personal time with her… Kelly began the meeting by saying, ‘I want to be direct and to the point. I hate ‘Since U Been Gone,’ and I hate ‘Behind These Hazel Eyes.’ I didn’t like working with Max Martin and Dr. Luke, and I don’t like the end product. I really want both songs off of my album.’ I sat there, shocked Re Cryus and Luke I have no idea what went down between them other than the $ 10,000 toilet bet but he seems to have a rep for calling even powerful personalities out if he thinks their music is substandard so I can see how he would hardly endear himself to big egos with no sexual bad behavior required. I think we need to see what comes out in court. Kesha’s team is promising lot of witnesses, none of whom have been produced so far. I’m kind for getting the idea based on her lawyer’s comments that they did not expect this kind of fight and were expecting him to roll over once the abuse accusations were made. This is going full legal now. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/64 "2016-02-28T09:25:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I would say the exact opposite. The fact that so many major stars (mostly female) are willing to publically take a stand on something they know absolutely nothing about, solely because it’s someone of the same gender as themselves making an accusation they identify with, is a huge negative aspect of the current mindset about sex abuse accusations. You’re talking about yourself. I can’t recall a single post from you on rape where you aren’t defending the man. You look for every excuse to believe them over the one making the accusation. We showed you that people do in fact know about him. You then made more excuses. It’s just two people, and everyone who would defend him must be too scared to do so. Nevermind that there are always people defending people in these situations–even fucking Cosby got defended. You start with a preconceived conclusion, and then come up with reasons to hold onto it. Not a single admission that you were wrong here. Just moving the goalposts. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/65 "2016-02-28T10:04:58Z")
Ugh: and while I don’t think I luckily didn’t violate any rules (as I stuck with talking about posts, not people), I apologize for my tone. I forgot we weren’t in the Pit. Still, I do think that you are calling the kettle black a bit, **F-P**. You seem just as biased one direction as the people you are arguing against. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/66 "2016-02-29T07:45:12Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re talking about yourself. I can’t recall a single post from you on rape where you aren’t defending the man. You look for every excuse to believe them over the one making the accusation. > > We showed you that people do in fact know about him. You then made more excuses. It’s just two people, and everyone who would defend him must be too scared to do so. Nevermind that there are always people defending people in these situations–even fucking Cosby got defended. > > You start with a preconceived conclusion, and then come up with reasons to hold onto it. Not a single admission that you were wrong here. Just moving the goalposts. I think you are going a bit strong here. They have provided little to no actionable evidence of her sexual assault claims, and she has previously testified in court, under oath, that none of the things she is now saying happened, happened. He may be an unpleasant, controlling SOB, but claiming he is a drugging rapist requires some level of proof absolutely none of which (so far as the news has reported) has been provided so far. Sure he could be a rapist, but there is also a chance (based on current lack of evidence either way) she could be making these charges up to get out of a financially punishing contract with a producer she obviously loathes. Until the matter is tried in court it makes sense for people in the industry to refrain from commenting or taking sides. Looking at her being wretchedly unhappy and crying in court at the female judge telling her she was not going to bust the contract based on her (so far) un-supported claims you can sympathize on multiple levels depending on your perspective, but until something is offered in the way of proof nobody really knows what happened between them. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/67 "2016-02-29T08:23:50Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > Oh come on . . . ANY industry where there are people holding positions of power over other people (which btw, is ALL industries, everywhere) there are going to be cases of sexual exploitation. There are no shortage of these cases pending or decided in the court system from every industry imaginable. The role of power in the situation is probably not limited to power over other people. There’s also the attractiveness of power to people (women especially). There’s also doing what it takes to get people with power to do what you want them to do. I don’t know what happened between these people - or, frankly, who they are. However I suspect there have been a lot of young people (both women and men) who have been both strongly attracted to a person in power, and more than happy with exploiting their own attractiveness to get what they want from that person in power, but who have felt very differently about the whole thing once their feelings changed and/or they ceased to get what they wanted. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I read in one of the stories that he had pressured her about lying under oath and saying he’d never done anything. If he was abusing her and in control of her career then, it’s not implausible that he could pressure or threaten her into lying under oath, and then only later she’s able to admit what really happened. So she’s someone who will lie under oath if what is best for her career is on the line. The only remaining question is: was she doing that then or is she doing that now? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/68 "2016-02-29T11:41:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re talking about yourself. I can’t recall a single post from you on rape where you aren’t defending the man. You look for every excuse to believe them over the one making the accusation. > > We showed you that people do in fact know about him. You then made more excuses. It’s just two people, and everyone who would defend him must be too scared to do so. Nevermind that there are always people defending people in these situations–even fucking Cosby got defended. > > You start with a preconceived conclusion, and then come up with reasons to hold onto it. Not a single admission that you were wrong here. Just moving the goalposts. You’re not big on that whole innocent-until-proven-guilty nonsense, are you. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/69 "2016-02-29T15:31:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Looking through your link, there seem to be all of 2 people who worked with him who expressed support for Kesha (Clarkson and Cyrus). > > And even at that, their comments were unspecific and it’s unclear whether they’ve found him to be a rapey sort of guy and support her accusations in that regard, or are just sympathetic - from their vantage point as entertainers - to her battle against a music producer trying to enforce his contractual rights against the performer’s “freedom”. > > It’s not surprising at all that no one is speaking in his defense. These days it’s very very bad to be seen as supporting a possible rapist over his ostensible victim. You have to have overwhelming evidence that the charges are bogus before you begin even hinting that just maybe the tragic victim is not all that. Clarkson’s comments are a very Southern way of saying that she does have bad things to say but she’s choosing not to say them. I don’t know if that means that Dr. Luke did anything to her, or if she witnessed behavior or heard about it, but that’s not just vague support. And Taylor Swift donated $250,000 in support of Kesha, and did work on one song with Dr. Luke, [the song Both of Us](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Both_of_Us), where she and B.o.B. wrote the song with Dr. Luke and Cirkut. And the tide is turning, but it’s still not like people automatically are supportive of the ostensible victim over the possible rapist in all cases. There are still plenty of men with rumors and accusations of abuse of women against them who have little to no harm against their career or reputations. I find it surprising that I haven’t seen any support towards Dr. Luke, even vague non-specific support. > [@Princhester](#): > > So she’s someone who will lie under oath if what is best for her career is on the line. The only remaining question is: was she doing that then or is she doing that now? If she was being abused and controlled then, she was lying because she was being abused and controlled. Just like abused wives might lie to the cops about their claim that the weren’t hit but they just accidentally fell down the stairs or whatever, and then later say that they were lying before and were actually abused by their husbands. Obviously you shouldn’t lie to the cops or courts, but in cases of abuse it’s understandable, and shouldn’t be held against the victims later. > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > You’re not big on that whole innocent-until-proven-guilty nonsense, are you. He’s not going to be proven guilty because there aren’t criminal charges against him as far as I know. Kesha just wants to get out of her contract. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/70 "2016-02-29T17:44:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Clarkson’s comments are a very Southern way of saying that she does have bad things to say but she’s choosing not to say them. I don’t know if that means that Dr. Luke did anything to her, or if she witnessed behavior or heard about it, but that’s not just vague support. And Taylor Swift donated $250,000 in support of Kesha, and did work on one song with Dr. Luke, [the song Both of Us](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Both_of_Us), where she and B.o.B. wrote the song with Dr. Luke and Cirkut. > > And the tide is turning, but it’s still not like people automatically are supportive of the ostensible victim over the possible rapist in all cases. There are still plenty of men with rumors and accusations of abuse of women against them who have little to no harm against their career or reputations. I find it surprising that I haven’t seen any support towards Dr. Luke, even vague non-specific support. > > If she was being abused and controlled then, she was lying because she was being abused and controlled. Just like abused wives might lie to the cops about their claim that the weren’t hit but they just accidentally fell down the stairs or whatever, and then later say that they were lying before and were actually abused by their husbands. Obviously you shouldn’t lie to the cops or courts, but in cases of abuse it’s understandable, and shouldn’t be held against the victims later. > > He’s not going to be proven guilty because there aren’t criminal charges against him as far as I know. Kesha just wants to get out of her contract. Given the nuclear nature of the charges and the high profile of the people he works with, most industry people, even if they think the charges are BS are going to keep quiet re supporting him. The media and online universe will descend and devour any celebrity or other person who supports his innocence. Plus maybe, as alleged, he’s just a world class asshole to work with so he really does not have anyone in his corner to say he’s a nice guy. Quite possible, but it does not mean he’s a rapist. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/71 "2016-02-29T18:45:31Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Given the nuclear nature of the charges and the high profile of the people he works with, most industry people, even if they think the charges are BS are going to keep quiet re supporting him. The media and online universe will descend and devour any celebrity or other person who supports his innocence. Plus maybe, as alleged, he’s just a world class asshole to work with so he really does not have anyone in his corner to say he’s a nice guy. Quite possible, but it does not mean he’s a rapist. Again, Cosby. People came out and defended him. Quit with this bullshit about how the level accusations means that no one will defend you. No, it means the exact opposite, specifically because of people who, like you, see a horrible accusation and feel they need to defend them. It honestly feels like everything has a narrative where the accusations are false, and no evidence can be used to counter this short of like a video or something. And I’m not even saying I’m 100% convinced this happened. I just hate these excuses to nullify what evidence we do have. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/72 "2016-02-29T18:57:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re talking about yourself. I can’t recall a single post from you on rape where you aren’t defending the man. You look for every excuse to believe them over the one making the accusation. > > We showed you that people do in fact know about him. You then made more excuses. It’s just two people, and everyone who would defend him must be too scared to do so. Nevermind that there are always people defending people in these situations–even fucking Cosby got defended. > > You start with a preconceived conclusion, and then come up with reasons to hold onto it. Not a single admission that you were wrong here. Just moving the goalposts. Leaving aside various other issues with your post, the one thing you would notice about my posts if you paid attention and were capable of understanding them is that I have not taken any sort of position one way or the other on whether these allegations are true. I have no idea, and I’ve merely observed that a lot of other people who have taken positions similarly have no idea. The general idea, BigT, is to avoid taking positions on things that you don’t know anything about. This is a policy I would stongly recommend to you as well, although given the extent to which this approach would cut into your post count I can see where this might be difficult for you. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/73 "2016-02-29T19:03:08Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Clarkson’s comments are a very Southern way of saying that she does have bad things to say but she’s choosing not to say them. I don’t know if that means that Dr. Luke did anything to her, or if she witnessed behavior or heard about it, but that’s not just vague support. What I said is that it’s vague as to the specific question of whether she was criticizing him for sexual indiscretions or supporting kesha in her efforts to free herself from her contract. There are two separate issues at hand, and these stars did not specify which one they’re supporting her on. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/74 "2016-02-29T23:06:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Again, Cosby. People came out and defended him. Quit with this bullshit about how the level accusations means that no one will defend you. No, it means the exact opposite, specifically because of people who, like you, see a horrible accusation and feel they need to defend them. > > It honestly feels like everything has a narrative where the accusations are false, and no evidence can be used to counter this short of like a video or something. > > And I’m not even saying I’m 100% convinced this happened. I just hate these excuses to nullify what evidence we do have. Well… what is the “evidence we do have”? She filed charges almost 2 years ago and what has been delivered so far in the way of hard evidence? So far as I can tell based on news reports it’s pretty much all hearsay or “he said-she said”. Also, hand waving away her testimony under oath that these charges when floated previously were nonsense is going to be tougher to do in front of a jury than in the court of public opinion. She’s shotgunning [every personal misconduct accusation at him imaginable](http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6281722/kesha-sexual-assault-lawsuit-text-dr-luke)short of his being a follower of Satan. The fact that no professional wants to step into this media buzzsaw is self preservation. Pretending there is some equivalence in the sympathetic weight of public opinion allotted to his charges vs hers is absurd. He’s a successful record producer noted for being dismissive, stubborn and controlling. He’s enough of a stubborn jerk he didn’t roll over and void the contract after being threatened with these charges. He decided to fight. He’ not a “nice guy”. She’s in mortal grief after not getting a summary judgement based on no evidence to back up her assault claims. The optics are solidly on her side at this point. Whether the jury will be is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/75 "2016-03-10T03:06:46Z")
There are now reports that the Dr. Luke asshole is getting fired by Sony! :fireworks emoji: I don’t know if this brings Kesha that much closer to being free again, but it’s definitely a good start. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/76 "2016-03-10T15:56:55Z")
More like it removes any reason for not fulfilling her contract i would say, whether that counts as free or not is up to debate. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/77 "2016-03-10T16:06:14Z")
> [@Ponch8](#): > > There are now reports that the Dr. Luke asshole is getting fired by Sony! :fireworks emoji: > > I don’t know if this brings Kesha that much closer to being free again, but it’s definitely a good start. Rumors, at this point. Which Dr. Luke is denying: [Dr. Luke's Lawyer Dismisses Rumors Sony May Drop Producer - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/dr-lukes-lawyer-dismisses-rumors-sony-drop-producer/story?id=37530621) ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410/78 "2016-10-24T21:49:03Z")
Kesha’s third album will finally be made. She is still stuck with Sony, but at least it’s a step to fulfilling her remaining obligations with them. [A new Kesha album is on its way | Page Six](http://pagesix.com/2016/10/24/a-new-kesha-album-is-on-its-way/) Incredibly, I barely even noticed this news when I found out late Saturday night. I can be forgiven, though: it was the same night the Cubs won the National League pennant for the first time since 1945! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kesha-sues-top-producer-dr-luke-10-years-of-abuse/701410.md?page=3)