# Ketamine Q **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 9, 2026, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713 "2026-10-09T20:25:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/24 "2026-10-11T13:21:36Z")
If someone slipped her the drugs, that’s an aggravating element and possibly a crime on its own, but it’s not essential to the question of whether she was raped. Civil cases actually have a lower standard of liability than a criminal case, since there’s no jail sentence on the table. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/25 "2026-10-11T13:38:16Z")
What is the “Ketamine Q”, then? Is there a claim that, due to dosage, timing, etc., she was not fucked up on ketamine and therefore was able to consent to sexual activity? ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/26 "2026-10-11T13:53:38Z")
The Ketamine Q was, is it likely or even possible to slip somebody Ketamine without their knowledge and participation. (The factual answer appears to be “probably not, under most likely circumstances.”) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/27 "2026-10-11T14:16:55Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If someone slipped her the drugs, that’s an aggravating element and possibly a crime on its own, but it’s not essential to the question of whether she was raped. Civil cases actually have a lower standard of liability than a criminal case, since there’s no jail sentence on the table. This is, as you note, a civil case and not a criminal one. I have no doubt that these douchey frat boys broke several laws and am unsure why the DA punted on prosecuting them, but punt he did. The civil case–which I’m sure actual lawyers involved with the case will lay out–is that the frat boys, the fraternity chapter, the college, Jane Doe’s sorority, and the bar where Ms. Doe got herself liquored up, are financially liable for her getting surreptitiously drugged and raped. I have my doubts about how clear the plaintiff’s attorney’s sailing will be on this one, because I’m not a lawyer, I’m not involved with this case in any way, and I have no real vested interest in its outcome. What I _do_ have is a fairly vivid recollection of two very similar stories from the last 25 years, one involving the Duke lacrosse team and one involving the University of Virginia and _Rolling Stone_ magazine. In both cases, the public was encouraged to jail the frat boys, castrate all rapists, and “believe the woman.” Unlike those two cases–which fell apart when the accuser was found to have made the whole thing up–some kind of sex and drugs did in fact occur. The great benefit to civil trials isn’t that the plaintiff stands to gain a bunch of money, it’s that all the embarrassing facts will be brought out into the sunlight. In those two other cases, a third party (a DA in the Duke case, and a reporter in the UVA case) had a hidden agenda, causing them to chum the waters to bring both cases national attention they didn’t merit. It may turn out the same thing is happening here. Or it might turn out the Cornell frat boys are as guilty as Hell and deserve whatever punishment is coming their way. It’s too early to tell. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/28 "2026-10-11T14:25:01Z")
I repeat, it is not like it has an un-noticeable taste. But I will not say that it is absolutely impossible under all circumstances that someone might unknowingly drink a ketamine-laced drink. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/29 "2026-10-11T14:35:20Z")
I did hedge my reply with a bunch of weasel words. It’s _possible_ one of the frat bros is pre-med and training to be a phlebotomist. Beyond that, it would be tricky. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/30 "2026-10-11T15:53:13Z")
I’ll point out that somebody who’s already had too much to drink is not carefully savoring the bouquet and subtle nuances of the next drink. Buy them something they’re unfamiliar with that’s strongly flavored (e.g. most liqueurs), dump in your surreptitious dose of [whatever], and decent bet your wasted victim won’t notice before their already depleted judgement rapidly goes to zero. Heck, if it takes you three drinks to make the nasty flavor dilute enough they don’t notice the whole cumulative dose, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/31 "2026-10-11T16:21:00Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > The drugs and how she came to have ingested them are an essential element of the lawsuit. All the articles I read have said she claimed she was pressured into snorting ketamine. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2026, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/32 "2026-10-11T18:08:55Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > The civil case–which I’m sure actual lawyers involved with the case will lay out–is that the frat boys, the fraternity chapter, the college, Jane Doe’s sorority, and the bar where Ms. Doe got herself liquored up, are financially liable for her getting surreptitiously drugged and raped. I read through the civil complaint and found no claim by Jane Doe that she was surreptitiously drugged. The case is primarily about the fact that a bunch of frat boys raped her while she was too intoxicated to consent. Contributing to that situation was the fact that a bar served her alcohol well beyond the point of visible intoxication even though she had the mandated under-21 X marks on her hand, and then the frat boys plied her with even more alcohol and weed. At that point she was too intoxicated to consent to sex or further drug consumption, but the frat boys pressured her into snorting ketamine and then raped her. She was already far too drunk to consent, and the ketamine allegedly rendered her too incapacitated to resist. So there’s no part of this that rests on any account of her being surreptitiously drugged. Per the complaint, Cornell tolerated an out-of-control party culture, and a bar knowingly served an underage patron, leading to her being too drunk to consent to sex, and then she was raped by 7 Chi Phi members. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2026, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/33 "2026-10-12T05:44:41Z")
In plain English, it’s the version of the 3-dimensional molecule that is used clinically. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2026, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/34 "2026-10-12T05:46:25Z")
My local newspaper had a big story today about BORG, which stands for “Black Out Rage Gallon”, part of a social media challenge that can never end well. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2026, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/35 "2026-10-12T10:03:50Z")
Care to expand on what you’re talking about? I’m too dense to follow. Or cite the article for our edification? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2026, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/36 "2026-10-12T12:00:29Z")
Binge-drinking party games? Something potentially problematic, to be sure, but usually the problems are due to grain alcohol, not ketamine. But, yes, people taking ketamine at a party are more likely than not to be drinking alcohol as well, and mixing ketamine and booze has never been particularly salubrious. Or maybe the people chugging borgs [what year is this?] are supposed to be less susceptible to being slipped something without their knowledge than people getting multiple drinks, merely susceptible to good old alcohol poisoning and blackouts. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2026, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/37 "2026-10-12T16:43:02Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > In plain English, it’s the version of the 3-dimensional molecule that is used clinically. The racemic mixture and the S enantiomer are both used clinically. Calling it “chiral” doesn’t help here. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2026, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/38 "2026-10-12T18:56:27Z")
This isn’t the exact article, and it’s from 2023, but the concepts are the same. > **[What Are Blackout Rage Gallons (BORGs)? | UPMC HealthBeat](https://share.upmc.com/2023/05/what-are-borgs/)** > > Blackout rage gallons (BORGs) contain a mixture of water, alcohol, and other substances like electrolytes and flavor enhancers. Learn the health risks of BORGs. And a link from a medical journal, which probably prompted the story (on top of the whole Cornell thing). [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41636174/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41636174/) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2026, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/39 "2026-10-12T19:22:57Z")
They had a thing at my university (UCSB) in the 80s the weekend before the last finals before the summer. People would bring the partial bottles of every alcohol that they had and pour them in a tub. If you drank five(?) large glassfulls you got to wear a Samurai style headband. I never took part. I am trying and failing to remember the name that they gave of the drink. @Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus, do you remember this? I was (clearly) never in a frat but I heard dozens of second hand stories of similar things happening at frat parties back then as well as some horrible hazing. It’s the behavior of privileged young men that goes back millenia. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2026, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/40 "2026-10-12T20:22:01Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > If you drank five(?) large glassfulls you got to wear a Samurai style headband. I never took part. I am trying and failing to remember the name that they gave of the drink. When I was a young pup in Air Force uniform, my elders would regale the group with tales of detached-station debauchery (like a year stuck on Johnston Atoll), including concoctions similar to what you describe, but flavored with Kool-aid. Apparently, only either green lemon-lime or purple grape Kool-aid, because the colors provided the names: Green Goddammit and Purple Jesus (the second word comes from the reaction of uninitiated participants sampling their first glass full: “Goddammit/Jesus, what the fuck is in that?” ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/41 "2026-10-13T01:05:07Z")
I was in a sort of fraternity, not Greek affiliated but in some ways similar. There wasn’t any dangerous or brutal hazing, but as a new member (“crone”), I was expected to learn the club’s history and a few songs. Additionally,we had to defer to the active brothers, but nothing ever went on like we sometimes hear about, for example pledges being coerced into performing onerous or pointless tasks. We put on an annual Fogcutters party, named for the very strong mixed punch that was served. If you could drink three of those, you were awarded the aforementioned Japanese style headband. I never managed it! This was at UCSD in the late '70s. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/42 "2026-10-13T01:09:26Z")
Is it supposed to be particularly difficult to drink way, way too much? Or were the cocktails nasty instead of tasty? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2026, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713/43 "2026-10-13T01:13:13Z")
Fogcutters! That was it. As I said, I never attended. I thought it was more ad hoc rather than a group putting it on. I have a vague memory of what your group may have been. Circle K or something? One of my friends belonged but I didn’t know much about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketamine-q/1033713.md?page=3)