# Ketchup or Catsup? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 23, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593 "2011-06-23T19:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/21 "2011-06-24T01:24:46Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Since it’s a word taken from the Chinese, and the original sounds like “ketchup”, and it was originally spelled “ketchup”, I have to go with that one. I don’t know where “catsup” came from. First OED cite for the spelling “catsup” is Jonathan Swift, 1730. How he pronounced it, I doubt we’ll ever know. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/22 "2011-06-24T03:23:45Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > First OED cite for the spelling “catsup” is Jonathan Swift, 1730. How he pronounced it, I doubt we’ll ever know. What he put it on, however, is well-documented…! Fred MacMurray used to introduce My Three Sons with “Welcome to our show for Heinz Cats-up,” which grated on my ear something fierce! I’m guessing that the confusion with “catch up” looked like it might become a problem, so two poor solutions were arrived at. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/23 "2011-06-24T04:03:34Z")
Ketchup. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/24 "2011-06-24T04:50:50Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > You can find old references to it also spelled “catchup.” Maybe “catsup” was an attempt to Wade-Giles it? > ETA: A search on this message board reveals 14 pages of “catsup” going back to 2001, and 30 pages of “ketchup” going back only to 2009. First time in my life that I’ve seen Wade-Giles used as a verb. I’ll be pinyinning. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/25 "2011-06-24T08:46:27Z")
I spell it ketchup, but catsup is ok too. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/26 "2011-06-24T09:43:28Z")
Tomato Sauce ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/27 "2011-06-24T09:46:03Z")
SDopers from the 1980’s will recall when Reagan’s Administration passed policy to make “ketchup” count as a veggie towards public school nutrition standards. It is here when “catsup” did not meet the Code, and hence all remaining brands loyal to “catsup” dropped the spelling. I wish I had a cite, but I read this in my research on things done under Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/28 "2011-06-24T09:49:24Z")
Oh, I think you can confirm this either on Heinz’ or Del Monte’s website. I think Del Monte because they used to always spell it “catsup”. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/29 "2011-06-24T12:46:37Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > SDopers from the 1980’s will recall when Reagan’s Administration passed policy to make “ketchup” count as a veggie towards public school nutrition standards. It is here when “catsup” did not meet the Code, and hence all remaining brands loyal to “catsup” dropped the spelling. I wish I had a cite, but I read this in my research on things done under Reagan. > [@Jinx](#): > > Oh, I think you can confirm this either on Heinz’ or Del Monte’s website. I think Del Monte because they used to always spell it “catsup”. While you can find that “tidbit” on many food sites, it’s not true. Del Monte _did_ change their spelling in the 1988-89 period though. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/30 "2011-06-24T14:26:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Is that something like _moutarde?_ No: a moutarde is a retarded cow. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/31 "2011-06-24T14:59:30Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > No: a moutarde is a retarded cow. Hah! ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/32 "2011-06-24T16:24:39Z")
I recall a “news item” on Saturday Night Live, back in the Not-Ready-For-Prime-Time Players era that one of the major brands was changing their spelling from catsup to ketchup. The visual gag was showing the marquee of the musical “Cats” in NY now displaying “Ketch.” ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/33 "2011-06-24T17:25:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Calm down. Here, have a doughknot. Mmmm, Doughknot… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/34 "2011-06-24T18:31:31Z")
The most perfect purveyor of the substance spells it “ketchup,” so I do, too. [![](http://www.commonsensewithmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/heinz.jpg) ](http://www.commonsensewithmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/heinz.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/35 "2011-06-24T22:26:24Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > First OED cite for the spelling “catsup” is Jonathan Swift, 1730. How he pronounced it, I doubt we’ll ever know. [There are ways of finding out . . .](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glubbdubdrib) ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/36 "2011-06-25T00:22:40Z")
ketchup ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/37 "2011-06-25T04:02:59Z")
The New Yorker’s [take](http://www.cartoonbank.com/1988/makes-you-wonder-doesnt-it/invt/114965/) on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593/38 "2011-06-25T05:11:13Z")
Interestingly, the primary name for the stuff at the FDA appears to be catsup. [The specifications are part of Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations.](http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=155.194) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ketchup-or-catsup/586593.md?page=1)