# Kevin Spacey comes out in response to accusation of sexual harassment of 14-year old boy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2017, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221 "2017-10-30T12:50:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/221 "2018-12-28T17:36:19Z")
I threw out my dvd of Beyond the Sea and my CD of the soundtrack. I loved the music and Spacey did a great job. But the latest allegations turn my stomach. I can’t watch anything that sick perv is in. Using alcohol to rape his dates. :shudder: > **[Graphic details emerge in Kevin Spacey sex assault care](https://www.wwlp.com/news/massachusetts/graphic-details-emerge-in-kevin-spacey-sex-assault-care/1677846895/)** > > Mother of accused details sexual assault allegations against Kevin Spacey. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/222 "2018-12-28T17:43:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I threw out my dvd of Beyond the Sea and my CD of the soundtrack. I loved the music and Spacey did a great job. > > But the latest allegations turn my stomach. I can’t watch anything that sick perv is in. Using alcohol to rape his dates. :shudder: > > [https://www.wwlp.com/news/massachusetts/graphic-details-emerge-in-kevin-spacey-sex-assault-care/1677846895](https://www.wwlp.com/news/massachusetts/graphic-details-emerge-in-kevin-spacey-sex-assault-care/1677846895) Yeah, I can’t watch him anymore either. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/223 "2018-12-28T17:52:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Isn’t 18 the legal age of consent, though? Yes. But so is confirming consent - sorry I included both age and consent, but in this case only the consent would apply. Totally up to the person instigating the sexual contact. And the consent has to be given when able - not drunk/drugged. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/224 "2018-12-28T20:33:10Z")
Taking this out from the context of Spacey, who clearly seems to be if nothing else, really creepy, and accepting that the age difference, while creepy, is not illegal or per se even unethical … I completely agree with the concept that consent must be given by someone capable of giving it. But where on the scale of a wee tipsy to intoxicated to passed out does one become not competent to give consent? Obviously before passed out drunk, but how far before? Is every hook up at a party where alcohol or other is being imbibed a potential rape charge whether or not a clear “yes” is given? Can consent only be given by the cold stone sober? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/225 "2018-12-28T21:06:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I threw out my dvd of Beyond the Sea and my CD of the soundtrack. I loved the music and Spacey did a great job. > > But the latest allegations turn my stomach. I can’t watch anything that sick perv is in. Using alcohol to rape his dates. :shudder: > > [https://www.wwlp.com/news/massachusetts/graphic-details-emerge-in-kevin-spacey-sex-assault-care/1677846895](https://www.wwlp.com/news/massachusetts/graphic-details-emerge-in-kevin-spacey-sex-assault-care/1677846895) What rape? He’s accused of rubbing the guys crotch. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/226 "2018-12-28T21:24:21Z")
There’s 30 accusations. Apparently most can’t be proven but I have no interest in ever seeing Spacey’s work again. > **[The sexual assault allegations against Kevin Spacey span decades. Here’s what...](https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/11/3/16602628/kevin-spacey-sexual-assault-allegations-house-of-cards)** > > The two-time Oscar winner now faces felony assault charges. > [@](#): > > more than 30 people have come forward with their own allegations against Spacey, with accounts ranging from harassment to attempted rape. On November 16, 2017, London’s Old Vic Theatre, where Spacey served as artistic director from 2004 to 2015, announced that a hotline it set up to facilitate its investigation into Spacey had received 20 allegations of “a range of inappropriate behavior,” all concerning young men over the age of 18. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/227 "2018-12-28T22:21:39Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > I have heard similar responses from men that have met a woman at a nightclub, and after spending some intimate time, they find out that the woman is actually underage and was in the club with a fake ID. > > It is on the part of the person instigating the sexual contact to confirm all is lawful and consent. Period. I know that may seem unfair, but that is the way of things. That said, conviction rates for sexual assault are dreadfully low anyway. It is statistically unlikely that he will be found guilty. But this gives rise to the hyperbole that some now say that a written consent form or direct verbal consent is required before any sexual action (e.g. May I kiss you? May I touch your breasts? May I remove your pants? etc.) That is simply not how it is done in real life. You move slowly, giving the other person the opportunity to say no if you have misread their desire to engage in that conduct. Is my wife waking me up to a blow job sexual assault? (Purely hypothetical of course. It never happens. 🙂 ) As far as being drunk, he was sober enough to pull out his phone and videotape the incident. I think that is strong evidence that he was not so impaired as to be unable to consent. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/228 "2018-12-28T22:29:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Taking this out from the context of Spacey, who clearly seems to be if nothing else, really creepy, and accepting that the age difference, while creepy, is not illegal or per se even unethical … I completely agree with the concept that consent must be given by someone capable of giving it. > > But where on the scale of a wee tipsy to intoxicated to passed out does one become not competent to give consent? > > Obviously before passed out drunk, but how far before? Is every hook up at a party where alcohol or other is being imbibed a potential rape charge whether or not a clear “yes” is given? Can consent only be given by the cold stone sober? In most (all?) states the level remains at the common law level of stumbling drunk off of your ass and not at the reduced .08 DUI level. I mean so drunk that you would not be convicted of first degree murder if you killed someone. This idea that because she had a couple of drinks and was tipsy is enough is not supported by any law. What about Spacey? He was drunk as well. Does that excuse his conduct? ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/229 "2018-12-28T22:55:35Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But this gives rise to the hyperbole that some now say that a written consent form or direct verbal consent is required before any sexual action (e.g. May I kiss you? May I touch your breasts? May I remove your pants? etc.) That is simply not how it is done in real life. You move slowly, giving the other person the opportunity to say no if you have misread their desire to engage in that conduct. > > Is my wife waking me up to a blow job sexual assault? (Purely hypothetical of course. It never happens. 🙂 ) > > As far as being drunk, he was sober enough to pull out his phone and videotape the incident. I think that is strong evidence that he was not so impaired as to be unable to consent. Whenever I hear that argument back, my response is usually “In my experience, enthusiastic consent is obvious…if it’s not that way for you, then maybe you need to rethink?” You give the other person time to reply, but also to reciprocate. If they are responding by touching you in kind, or in your blowjob example, by running their hands in your hair and whispering “F\*\*\*…” under their breath (hypothetical, of course)… On the other hand, if they are half-passed out, not touching you back, of whatever, then maybe re-think if consent was given? ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/230 "2018-12-28T23:01:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I threw out my dvd of Beyond the Sea and my CD of the soundtrack. O Merciful Sweet Father, at long last we can now put this sordid chapter of American shame behind us and begin to come together and heal as a nation. Now let the ample, unstinting blessings of The Lord act as a soothing balm against our ravaged, outraged psychic wounds and our trampled tender mercies, Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/231 "2018-12-28T23:13:43Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > O Merciful Sweet Father, at long last we can now put this sordid chapter of American shame behind us and begin to come together and heal as a nation. > > Now let the ample, unstinting blessings of The Lord act as a soothing balm against our ravaged, outraged psychic wounds and our trampled tender mercies, Amen. You’re really good at sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/232 "2018-12-28T23:23:09Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > You’re really good at sarcasm. Your dry, yet distinctively caustic wit has forced me to take a long, hard look in the mirror and take stock of exactly what kind of a Sraight Doper (Smartest?, Hippest?) I really want to be. Bless you Brother. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/233 "2018-12-28T23:33:40Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But this gives rise to the hyperbole that some now say that a written consent form or direct verbal consent is required before any sexual action (e.g. May I kiss you? May I touch your breasts? May I remove your pants? etc.) That is simply not how it is done in real life. You move slowly, giving the other person the opportunity to say no if you have misread their desire to engage in that conduct. > > Is my wife waking me up to a blow job sexual assault? (Purely hypothetical of course. It never happens. 🙂 ) > > As far as being drunk, he was sober enough to pull out his phone and videotape the incident. I think that is strong evidence that he was not so impaired as to be unable to consent. Being able to push a button doesn’t prove much. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/234 "2018-12-28T23:34:52Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Whenever I hear that argument back, my response is usually “In my experience, enthusiastic consent is obvious…if it’s not that way for you, then maybe you need to rethink?” > > You give the other person time to reply, but also to reciprocate. If they are responding by touching you in kind, or in your blowjob example, by running their hands in your hair and whispering “F\*\*\*…” under their breath (hypothetical, of course)… > > On the other hand, if they are half-passed out, not touching you back, of whatever, then maybe re-think if consent was given? There is no law and never has been a law that requires “enthusiastic” consent. Further, if someone begins filming the sexual encounter without stating an objection, I don’t think it is unreasonable to believe that at minimum they don’t mind it. What is wrong with simply saying “no” if you do not want that particular form of contact? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/235 "2018-12-28T23:35:49Z")
Entirely as an additional element to the whole sordid deal… I dunno about you, maybe it’s my age and life experiences talking, but ISTM in a casual pickup situation, either party whips out a device to start recording the proceedings, that is to me \*also \*a signal to stop and Ask Important Questions. \*\*\*Especially \*\*\*if you are a public figure. Having gone along with it makes Spacey guilty of an additional charge of Aggravated Stupid. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/236 "2018-12-29T00:14:14Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Entirely as an additional element to the whole sordid deal… I dunno about you, maybe it’s my age and life experiences talking, but ISTM in a casual pickup situation, either party whips out a device to start recording the proceedings, that is to me \*also \*a signal to stop and Ask Important Questions. \*\*\*Especially \*\*\*if you are a public figure. > > Having gone along with it makes Spacey guilty of an additional charge of Aggravated Stupid. I don’t doubt that Spacey showed horribly poor judgment, but that seems to be his M.O. But I disagree with your criticism in the context of a legal analysis. If I touch a girl (that I just met that night) in some sexual way and not only does she not object, but she is _filming_ it, the concern I would have is that she is psycho, not that she did not consent to the contact. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/237 "2018-12-29T04:13:15Z")
That is exactly what I am trying to determine through the Important Questions – what use does she intend to make of this recording. Particularly if any recording, rebroadcast or retransmission of this content may be used without the explicit consent of the [del]Major League Commissioner[/del] other party 😛 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/238 "2018-12-29T05:48:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What about Spacey? He was drunk as well. Does that excuse his conduct? The law generally recognizes that a person can be too drunk to give consent. AFAICT the law generally does **not** support the idea that a person can be too drunk to refrain from committing a crime. IOW, if you’re too drunk to effectively protect yourself from somebody’s sexual advances, maybe you were kind of dumb to drink that much but it still doesn’t make you responsible for their forcing nonconsensual sex on you. But if you’re too drunk to refrain from forcing nonconsensual sex on somebody else, you’re still responsible for what you did. Being too drunk to stop somebody else from hurting you and being too drunk to stop yourself from hurting somebody else are two different kettles of fish, legally speaking. I thought lawyers knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/239 "2018-12-29T08:00:44Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The law generally recognizes that a person can be too drunk to give consent. AFAICT the law generally does **not** support the idea that a person can be too drunk to refrain from committing a crime. > > IOW, if you’re too drunk to effectively protect yourself from somebody’s sexual advances, maybe you were kind of dumb to drink that much but it still doesn’t make you responsible for their forcing nonconsensual sex on you. > > But if you’re too drunk to refrain from forcing nonconsensual sex on somebody else, you’re still responsible for what you did. Being too drunk to stop somebody else from hurting you and being too drunk to stop yourself from hurting somebody else are two different kettles of fish, legally speaking. > > I thought lawyers knew that. If Spacey can be charged with sexual assault because the other guy was drunk, why isn’t the other guy being charged with sexual assault because Spacey was drunk? If two drunk people have sex with each other, which one gets charged with a crime? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221/240 "2018-12-29T08:29:16Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If Spacey can be charged with sexual assault because the other guy was drunk, why isn’t the other guy being charged with sexual assault because Spacey was drunk? AFAICT he could be. When two drunk people have a sexual encounter without third-party witnesses it is possible that either one of them might have forced nonconsensual sex on the other. Just as when two drunk people have a fistfight without third-party witnesses it is possible that either one of them might have criminally assaulted the other. > [@Lemur866](#): > > If two drunk people have sex with each other, which one gets charged with a crime? The one who’s accused of committing a crime, if the prosecutor thinks the accusation is plausible enough to justify pressing charges. Yes, two people could in theory [accuse each other](https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/05/alcohol-and-consent-questions/): > [@](#): > > So how does the legality work when all involved parties are drinking? > > Cynthia Godsoe, the law professor, explains that in situations where all people are drinking, charges are often brought against the person who is determined to have initiated sex, even if they’re also drunk. […] > > She says that while “both parties could often be charged, I have never seen a case – and I have looked – where both are… […]" > > This is a tricky standard that a lot of people find problematic since there can be cases where all parties feel that they haven’t given consent during different aspects of the same encounter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kevin-spacey-comes-out-in-response-to-accusation-of-sexual-harassment-of-14-year-old-boy/800221.md?page=13)