# key cutters and shoe repair - whats the relation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 8, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938 "2004-04-08T12:56:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cress)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/1 "2004-04-08T12:56:31Z")
I’ve often wondered, but never figured out, exactly why shoe repair shops also cut keys, and vice versa (at least in the UK). The two services don’t really seem closely related, but are always offered under the same roof. Can anyone shed some light on this? ---
**Author:** ![RumMunkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@RumMunkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RumMunkey)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/2 "2004-04-08T12:59:44Z")
An educated guess would simply be that neither one can generate enough business to sustain itself. If the cobbler only fixed shoes, he couldn’t cover his overhead, so he cuts keys as well. As for why cutting keys seems to be the common ‘2nd job’, it’s probably cause “that’s what my father did when he owned the business”. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/3 "2004-04-08T13:14:02Z")
This combination (small shoe repairs, cutting keys) is also common in Germany, in the form of either a small independent shop or, more often, a chain/franchise operation. So I guess it’s not only an arbitrary choice on the part of the owner. My guess is that the kind of needed manual skills and the type of customer (casual walk-in customers who want quick service) are similar so there are advantages in recruiting staff and choosing a site. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/4 "2004-04-08T13:28:31Z")
I had never thought about it but every shoe repair place I’ve used in Australia cuts keys. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/5 "2004-04-08T14:33:25Z")
I wonder if this occurs in America as well. I’ve never seen it myself … but shoe repair places themselves are pretty rare, to my experience. There is a cobbler/leatherworker not too far from my work, as it happens. I should place a phone call and ask. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/6 "2004-04-08T14:44:09Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I wonder if this occurs in America as well. There’s a store called Meijer over here – it’s kind of like a Super Walmart: very large, with regular merchandise as well as an extensive grocery section. Anyway, my local Meijer has a small little alcove in the front of the store that seems to be manned by a single employee during it’s operating hours, and in this alcove they repair shoes . . . and cut keys. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/7 "2004-04-08T15:17:02Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I wonder if this occurs in America as well. I’ve never seen it myself … but shoe repair places themselves are pretty rare, to my experience. > > There is a cobbler/leatherworker not too far from my work, as it happens. I should place a phone call and ask. You obviously live no where near a Military installation. One cant walk two blocks near Ft Bragg without seein a boot repair/resole/shine shop. None of which cut keys. But they can easily pay the bills working with boots alone. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/8 "2004-04-08T15:26:15Z")
Here in Silcon Valley there are several corner stores (just happen to be owned by Indian people) that as a sideline cut keys. The keycutting looks like a very simple process just requiring the cutting lathe a set of key blanks and the original key. Do cobblers use a lathe at all? ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/9 "2004-04-08T15:44:14Z")
OH :(, I opened this thread because I have also wondered this. I thought now was my chance to find out. Alas, no. Ah well, I’ll keep coming back to see if anyone knew It does now seem to be pretty widespread, nt jsut in Britain, so at least that is something I have learned. INcidientally theh cobbler/kecutter nearest my hme also make the little nameplates that one puts n one’s door. However, I think the “nameplate” thing may exist mainly in Scotland, as I don’t recall the practice being common in England or in Wales, so I suppose that might not cunt as another strange part of the combination. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/10 "2004-04-08T16:14:23Z")
Strangely enough the nameplate thing is also often done by this kind of shops in Germany. Sometimes also rubber stamps and engraving. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/11 "2004-04-08T16:39:45Z")
I reckon **Bippy t\_B** is on the right track. I think cobblers do use a lathe to remove the old sole before applying the new one. If so, that’d make this an “economy of scope”. Doesn’t explain the engraving, though. Perhaps a common requirement of a a steady hand? Damn good question. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/12 "2004-04-08T17:29:33Z")
Just a WAG, but is the desoration on some shoes done by engraving? The shoes originally would be massproduced with the cuts into the lether made by machine, but if a cobbler had to replace a section of the patterned leather would they need to hand engrave it to match the other shoe of the pair? I can’t see this being economic for anything but the most expensive dress shoes, so the engraving skill could be used to engrave metal for a more regular income source ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/13 "2004-04-08T17:41:40Z")
It seems to be the same in Canada too. (Not that I get my sneakers repaired, but I have had keys cut.) The shop I most often walk by does all kinds of leatherwork, not just shoes, but I haven’t noticed if he does nameplates. As mentioned above, I suppose it’s just because those are all tiny businesses that take similar talents and don’t bring in enough trade individually to run alone. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/14 "2004-04-08T18:02:52Z")
Contrariwise, the only business I’ve ever noticed that did keycutting was a hardware store (which also did engraved nameplates and the like, as I recall). And for a particularly odd combination, I have a name-and-address self-inking stamp which was made for me by the local… barber. Figure that one out. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/15 "2004-04-08T18:38:57Z")
On the subject of an odd combination there is a chain of shops in the UK called **Sketchley**. For years they were just dry cleaners. Then they either bought a photo processing company or were bought out by one. So now you have one shop were you can have your photos processed and have your dry cleaning done under the one roof. BTW this same company also owns another chain of shops called **Timpson** where you can get your shoes repaired , have keys cut , get engraving done and have your watch repaired. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/key-cutters-and-shoe-repair-whats-the-relation/238938/16 "2004-04-08T20:17:09Z")
> [@hawthorne](#): > > I reckon **Bippy t\_B** is on the right track. I think cobblers do use a lathe to remove the old sole before applying the new one. If so, that’d make this an “economy of scope”. Doesn’t explain the engraving, though. Perhaps a common requirement of a a steady hand? > > Damn good question. I’ve never seen keys cut on a lathe before - just key duplicating machines, which are self-contained units about the size of a bench grinder. A cobbler’s “line finisher” is an entirely different beast. (I rebuilt a Landis 400L line - a very old machine resembling [the S-2000](http://www.landiscanada.com/dossier_anglais/Bancs%20de%20finition.htm) but roughly 12 feet long a few years ago.) It’s like a lathe only in having one or more horizontal shafts, but their bearings aren’t built for anything resembling precision - they just spin sanding drums, brushes, etc. The side-to-side wobble in the bearings would make key duplication impossible.