# Keyes To Run Against Obama in Illinois Senate Race **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632 "2004-08-06T15:41:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/61 "2004-08-08T17:04:54Z")
> [@cmason32](#): > > 1. What’s your favorite sports team? Heh. Make it baseball team. No matter which Chicago team he pretends to be a fan of, he’ll probably lose half the vote… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/62 "2004-08-08T17:08:44Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > Not really, for one thing they recently changed it. It used to say only that the government should not pay for abortions. Abortion is not a set issue among Libertarians, with many feeling that it violates the unborn child’s right to life. > To say that you can’t be Libertarian and be against abortion is like saying you can’t be Libertarian and against slavery because that would be infringing on the slave owners property rights. You can’t be Libertarian and believe that the _government should restrict it._ Being morally for or against it is really beside the point. Besides abortion, you have the fact that Keyes is is a theocrat , is anti-gay and is against the decriminalization of drugs. All distinctly anti-Libertarian positions. What position does he have that _is_ distinctly Libertarian as opposed to simply conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/63 "2004-08-08T17:37:04Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And if you think chickens have the same rights as humans then _KFC_ is the same as al Qaeda. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/64 "2004-08-08T18:18:00Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > To say that you can’t be Libertarian and be against abortion is like saying you can’t be Libertarian and against slavery because that would be infringing on the slave owners property rights. Actually, I once read in a sidebar in college economics text (can’t find it right now) that Libertarians are in favor of “voluntary slavery.” Whatever that is. Sounds like an oxymoron to me. Perhaps it means that you have the right to sell yourself into slavery and your master has the right to call on the state to enforce that as a contract – like indentured servitude. But would it be hereditary? Nitpick: You called Keyes a “Libertarian Conservative” – big L. big C. As a matter of style I think we should only capitalize “Libertarian” when referring to members of the Libertarian Party – and we should never, ever capitalize “Conservative” when referring to an American politician because there is no Conservative Party here (that is, none with that name). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/65 "2004-08-08T18:43:05Z")
BTW – I’m also reminded of something I read in a book about the landed, slaveowning aristocracy of the Old South – an account of a member of that class on the floor of the U.S. Senate (or House, I forget which), pounding his desk with a bullwhip and roaring: “I am an aristocrat! I hate equality! I love liberty!” In my view, modern American Libertarians (large-L and small-l) have rather more in common with that rat-bastard than with John Stuart Mill. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/66 "2004-08-08T18:57:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, I once read in a sidebar in college economics text (can’t find it right now) that Libertarians are in favor of “voluntary slavery.” Whatever that is. It’s a Rahsaan Roland Kirk song. 😉 > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > And if you think chickens have the same rights as humans then _KFC_ is the same as al Qaeda. And if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce it tastes much more like prunes than rhubarb does. (Yes, Keyes’ comment is absurd.) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/67 "2004-08-08T19:21:55Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > If you believe that the unborn have the same human rights as you or I then yes. However I would not have said terrorism, that has just become the new catchword for “evil” nowadays. Even if you believe that fetuses have the same rights as human beings, it’s ridiculous to compare abortion groups to terrorists, for the simple reason that **abortion groups _don’t_ believe fetuses are equivalent to human beings.** Thus, they don’t consider their actions to be murder. Meanwhile, Al Queda **knowingly** commits mass murder without remorse. Surely you must acknowledge that there is a **huge** difference between someone who commits an act you believe is murder because he has a different definition of human life, and someone who knowingly **chooses** to commit murder out of hatred for his victims. ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/68 "2004-08-08T21:23:02Z")
[http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/chi-040808keyes,1,7928978.story?coll=chi-news-hed](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/chi-040808keyes,1,7928978.story?coll=chi-news-hed) > [@](#): > > Two-time presidential candidate Alan Keyes today officially entered the race for U.S. Senate as the Republican nominee to run against Democrat Barack Obama — the first Senate race in which the two candidates from both major parties are black. > > Keyes accepted the nomination from the Illinois Republican State Central Committee to replace primary winner Jack Ryan, who dropped out amid a sex scandal. At a press conference, Keyes, a talk-show host from Maryland, took a significant amount of time explaining why he was deciding to parachute into Illinois to run. > > One of the biggest reasons, he said, was because of Obama’s support for abortion rights, especially so-called partial-birth abortions. > > “Barack Obama abandons the principles of our Declaration (of Independence) and destroys the foundation of our national union,” Keyes said. > > Keyes admitted his lack of knowledge of Illinois and spoke a great deal about his love of Maryland, where his father is from. People seem to like Obama because he seems genuine and honest. I wonder how people will respond to Keyes stating that he is destroying the foundation of our national union. Here is another good quote from Keyes: > [@](#): > > “I might not know the streets yet and the neighborhoods and all the things that go to make up the everyday life of the people. But if in fact, the people of Illinois still stand together on the American creed, still assert their right of self-government, still have the sense of responsible citizenship, then I believe I know their spirit and their conscience and their heart.” Guess he hasn’t yet found a neighborhood to live in. ---
**Author:** ![jeevmon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@jeevmon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeevmon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/69 "2004-08-09T14:42:40Z")
> [@cmason32](#): > > People seem to like Obama because he seems genuine and honest. I wonder how people will respond to Keyes stating that he is destroying the foundation of our national union. I don’t know that it will go over all that well. Fire and brimstone candidates don’t seem to do all that well here in statewide or national elections, and Keyes is unquestionably that. The voters to whom his pitch is likely to appeal are those who would not have voted for Obama anyway. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/70 "2004-08-09T15:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Barack Obama abandons the principles of our Declaration (of Independence) and destroys the foundation of our national union," Keyes said The absurdity of this statement aside, I have noticed the Keyes emphasizes the Declaration of Independance as the “foundation” of our country (because it mentions God a couple of time) and de-emphasizes the Constitution. As Alan Dershewitz (sp?) pointed out in a debate with Keyes, the DoI is _political rhetoric_ meant for a particular moment in history, whereas the Constitution is the _Law_ meant for all time. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/71 "2004-08-09T15:59:21Z")
Have you ever watched a boxing match on ESPN2, where some up and comer with a left hook that could kill an elephant who’s 8-0 with 8 knockouts, all in the first two rounds, since he won the Olympic gold medal, is put up against some journeyman who’s 12-23 and basically makes his money getting knocked out by up-and-comers? That latter guy is Alan Keyes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/72 "2004-08-09T15:59:53Z")
[Keyes has the ringing support of the Speaker:](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/08/politics/trail/08TRAIL-KEYES.html?pagewanted=print) (the article is so short it’s hard to excerpt, sorry) > [@](#): > > “I spent five weeks trying to find good people,” said Mr. Hastert, who said he approached state legislators and the former Chicago Bears coach Mike Ditka and Gary Fencik, an Ivy Leaguer who was a hard-hitting safety. > > “I got down into last week interviewing a 70-year-old guy who was a great farm broadcaster in Illinois,” Mr. Hastert said. “He decided because of his health problems he couldn’t do it. You know, we were down — we needed to find somebody to run, somebody who wanted to run. And, you know, Alan Keyes wants to run, and I hope he’s a good candidate.” > > But Tim Russert pressed Mr. Hastert by saying it appeared that Illinois Republicans had gone out and recruited an out-of-state black candidate to oppose Mr. Obama, who is also black. > > “I tell you what,” Mr. Hastert. “I was out of town when it happened.” ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/73 "2004-08-09T16:00:09Z")
I’ve been discussing this on the Politics1 blogs. Basically, no political observer (of any party affiliation) thinks that Keyes can win. So, why is he running? Quite simple. The Reps have no candidates. Fitzgerald wouldn’t get back in (then again, he was retiring because he might have lost the election if he hadn’t), the one Republican statewide officeholder is planning to run for Governor in 2006, and most of the Republican Congressmen (and one woman) from Illinois are 1) too old, 2) represent marginal districts, or 3) aren’t interested in giving up power in Washington. There goes the A-list. Then, they tried the people who lost to Ryan in the primary. The only ones that didn’t refuse 1) demanded financial backing from the national party, or 2) only received 2% or so in the primary. Then, a whole line of people (from Governors Thompson and Edgar to Mike Ditka) were offered the nomination. All refused. In short, Keyes got the nomination because he’s seemingly the only guy that wants it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/74 "2004-08-09T17:54:13Z")
> [@cmason32](#): > > Guess he hasn’t yet found a neighborhood to live in. I’d offer him a spot in my apartment, but it sounds like he’d want me to pay his rent. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/75 "2004-08-09T17:58:06Z")
Keyes will be on CNN today around 3:30 est (I think on Inside Politics). I’m curious to see what he’ll say - if he’ll give real answers or deliver more of his federalism rant. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/76 "2004-08-09T18:48:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’d offer him a spot in my apartment, but it sounds like he’d want me to pay his rent. :rolleyes: Speaking of which… Given the man’s financial troubles, I wonder who will be paying for him to set up housekeeping in Illinois? And will a violation of campaign finance laws be involved? ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/77 "2004-08-10T00:08:09Z")
I don’t see how rhetoric like this helps Keyes: > [@](#): > > CHICAGO Aug. 9, 2004 — A day after jumping into the Illinois Senate race, two-time presidential hopeful Alan Keyes ripped into Democratic rival Barack Obama, saying his views on abortion are “the slaveholder’s position.” > > The conservative former diplomat said Obama’s vote against a bill that would have outlawed a form of late-term abortion denied unborn children of their equal rights. Both candidates one an outspoken conservative and the other a favorite of party liberals are black. > > “I would still be picking cotton if the country’s moral principles had not been shaped by the Declaration of Independence,” Keyes said. He said Obama “has broken and rejected those principles he has taken the slaveholder’s position.” Who does he think this stuff will appeal to? ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/78 "2004-08-10T03:29:17Z")
The First Obama/Keyes poll is in: [http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/local\_story\_222175640.html](http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/local_story_222175640.html) Obama 67% Keyes 28% I don’t suppose this will encourage outside fundraising. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/79 "2004-08-10T05:16:12Z")
That poll is quite close to my own prediction that on November 2 the vote will be : Obama - 70% Keyes - 30% Anyone else want to make a prediction now? Am I being too generous with Keyes? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632/80 "2004-08-10T05:18:26Z")
I think this was a bad move by Republicans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keyes-to-run-against-obama-in-illinois-senate-race/258632.md?page=5)