# KGS: sad. SDMB: sadder. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107 "2008-11-23T16:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/61 "2008-11-23T19:32:32Z")
> [@Aswan](#): > > That said, I do think that his subsequent taunting and humiliation for 15 pages was nothing short of degrading and a poor reflection of the SDMD. Let us suppose that he imagined his wit was rapier sharp and that he was tilting at windmills and winning. We all could see the obvious truth, and it was saddening. Prolonging it for someone’s amusement was an abuse. If that makes me sound superior, well, I can live with that. I think it’s a hell of a lot more vicious starting a thread where you’re telling the board how pathetic he is than engaging him as a presumed equal in the thread would ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/62 "2008-11-23T19:33:37Z")
> [@Aswan](#): > > Oh, and Rubystreak, you speak with the authority of several centuries of support. I wonder how enthusiastic you’d have been to drink the hemlock yourself back then. Crazy was nothing compared to heretic. At the risk of belaboring a very obvious point (though you seem to be missing it), Galileo had gathered concrete data that he could show people who were interested. His evidence was based on not only personal observation but also mathematics and physics, and could be reproduced by others. He was not making extraordinary claims without offering any proof at all. Many people have offered to look at KGS’ evidence, but he has none to offer. That is only the most empirical difference between him and Galileo. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/63 "2008-11-23T19:39:42Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > Whoa where’s this hostility come from? I asked a specific question about where not tolerating behaviors became hypocritical. From the content of your post (mentioning liberal PC elite and homosexuality) it went far wider then anything KGS had touched on in that thread so I was asking you to clarify. Clearly you’re dealing with enough issues of your own and I’ll leave you to it. I’ll admit I got carried away with the gestalt of the moment. 😉 The point it becomes hypocritical is when you try to conflate simply being wrong with some sort of social ill. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/64 "2008-11-23T19:40:16Z")
> [@Aswan](#): > > I made it clear that I thought his OP in the Pit was a mistake. This is perhaps the biggest point. If he had made his ideas known in GD or MPSIMS or IMHO, it would be a civil, though strained and still argumentative discourse. But this is the Pit. This is the one forum area where people feel a great expectation that they should live up to the Pit Moniker of being flaming arseholes and all. The Pit is the one place that I do not judge the rest of the boards by, because it’s an entirely different attitude here. If KGS had made a post ANYWHERE else, I doubt we’d see the vitriol we are seeing here (though he probably would have eventually been pitted and we’d be back here again). So to say that people aren’t acting proper and it’s cruel and unfair and demeaning and what not- I’d agree with you… IF IT WERE POSTED ANYWHERE ELSE. In the Pit? I’m sorry, the pit is the worst of what we Dopers have to offer, and to try to judge Dopers simply by the Pit is to paint broad stroke. I will give them credit- when \*\*KGS \*\*said to please stop talking about his mental health issues, most of the Dopers obliged and have resorted to insulting him in other ways. That’s a modicum of respect, it’s not much, but it’s SOMETHING. But I think you’re pointing out something that everyone else knows. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/65 "2008-11-23T19:40:43Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > That’s why many people don’t respond to his BS. Fortunately for me the bulk of them are people I don’t want to hear from. ---
**Author:** ![Aswan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Aswan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aswan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/66 "2008-11-23T23:03:38Z")
Rubystreak, it is an obvious point and you are belaboring it—it was never the point to begin with. I never suggested a scientific parallel between Galileo and KGS. In fact, I never defended his “science.” I merely alluded to the “not-so-happy ending” which KGS seems to have suffered in this virtual reality. (Just by the way, no one wanted to see Galileo’s work for fear of suffering his fate as well. The Pope was not someone to trifle with.) And it is faint praise to suggest that the SDMB should be commended when it stopped insulting KGS for his mental illness by finding other ways to insult him. It does irritate me that I am somehow painted as suggesting that the SDMB give people free passes for disabilities (either real or imagined) or condone or enable people with crazy ideas. I dislike that as much as any other sane person. But I don’t taunt and humiliate and belittle them in public. Their problems are bad enough as it is. If that’s how you make yourself feel better when you fall asleep at night, please continue with my condolences. I’m not superior to you, but perhaps a tad more forgiving. It’s actually a weakness. I wish I had your steely resolve. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/67 "2008-11-23T23:25:05Z")
Why do I get the sense that the OP is either: 1. A troll 2. A sock puppet 3. Someone here only to stir up shit or 4. Possibly all of the above three I mean really, who makes their first topic/post in the Pit? While I’ve known some to do that before, I don’t recall them ever either staying very long or lasting very long. What’s your beef here? Why do you care? I don’t get it. Is this something that would effect your willingness to pay for charter membership or is this just something you wanted to get off your chest that you noticed? In any event, why not branch out a bit? I understand you say you’ve been lurking for awhile but there’s other forums and great places on here then just the Pit…Besides, I think it’s frowned upon (or so it used to be) to have all (or the majority) of your posts be in the Pit, especially if you’re a new person (“new” person?), although IANAM (OJM 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/68 "2008-11-23T23:28:57Z")
> [@Aswan](#): > > Rubystreak, it is an obvious point and you are belaboring it—it was never the point to begin with. I never suggested a scientific parallel between Galileo and KGS. In fact, I never defended his “science.” I merely alluded to the “not-so-happy ending” which KGS seems to have suffered in this virtual reality. (Just by the way, no one wanted to see Galileo’s work for fear of suffering his fate as well. The Pope was not someone to trifle with.) You did compare him with Galileo and it was a stupid comparison. KGS is spouting nonsense and he attacked people who disagreed with him. Galileo did no such thing but suffered a much worse fate that KGS ever did or would. And by the way, you’re not teaching me anything about Galileo. I know what happened to him and why. There is no parallel to be made here. KGS is not a hero or a victim. Give it a rest. > [@](#): > > It does irritate me that I am somehow painted as suggesting that the SDMB give people free passes for disabilities (either real or imagined) or condone or enable people with crazy ideas. I dislike that as much as any other sane person. But I don’t taunt and humiliate and belittle them in public. Their problems are bad enough as it is. If that’s how you make yourself feel better when you fall asleep at night, please continue with my condolences. He is not being taunted or humiliated any more than anyone whose Pit thread backfires on them ever is in the Pit. He also has done his own share of taunting and ridiculing people. He’s a big boy and can take care of himself. What would you have people do? Do you want special treatment for him because you think he’s mentally ill, overriding his own stated wishes? Please, be prescriptive, because unlike KGS, we aren’t mind readers and when we try to infer your intention, you get irritated. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/69 "2008-11-24T00:00:53Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I mean really, who makes their first topic/post in the Pit? While I’ve known some to do that before, I don’t recall them ever either staying very long or lasting very long. Oooh. . . thanks. I didn’t notice that. Good point. But I’ll post what I was going to say anyway. I think that **KGS** is having a good time and is having a little fun with y’alls. I looked back randomly at a few of his previous posts and they were cogent, coherent and one was hilarious. Here’s [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10326608&postcount=34) that had me laughing and here’s [another](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10325859&postcount=17) that seems pretty coherent. And to some of the posters who say that **KGS** is the stupidest poster on the internet, they must not see much of the internet. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/70 "2008-11-24T01:13:06Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > No, I’m doing it because **KGS** is a stupid, addle-pated nincompoop who insists beyond all reason that the plural of “anecdote” is “data,” and that scientists are “out of touch” for using the correct terminology for their research. Ignoring anecdotal data is stupid, especially when the vast amount of this type of data is overwhelming. And to insist _your_ particular terminology is “correct” is equally stupid, inherently biased, and only serves to deepen the abyssal gulf of ignorance separating the lay person from the so-called “scientist.” Mark my words – if you could convince scientist to exchange the word “theory” for something else, such as “process” or “design”, it would go a long way towards convincing lay people of the truth behind scientific method. It would certainly deflate the ammunition of anti-evolutionists who twist the meaning of that word! > [@Rubystreak](#): > > You did compare him with Galileo and it was a stupid comparison. KGS is spouting nonsense and he attacked people who disagreed with him. Galileo did no such thing but suffered a much worse fate that KGS ever did or would. Galileo was a pussy. 🆒 I don’t know where all this “humiliation” nonsense comes from, except as acknowledgement of certain people’s true (yet failed) intentions. Right now, I’m just standing aside in awe of my creation – a 14 page (!) Pit Thread, plus a sequel semi-Pit Thread, all triggered solely because I wanted to call somebody an asshole. Ain’t it curious how the tiniest, simplest interactions can have such dramatic results…and the vampire novel I’m writing is coming along quite nicely, too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/71 "2008-11-24T01:34:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > If someone’s being wrong leads to them hanging black people, you ridicule it because it needs to be ridiculed. If someone’s being wrong leads to them taking photos with a Kyrlian camera, you respectfully disagree and remain cordial. > > If you can’t see the difference perhaps it is you who is retarded. Oh, I can see the difference. But I would suggest that once the nooses are pulled out, the time for ridicule is long past. ## Perhaps you need to rework your analogy. **mswas** : Ridicule is a useful rhetorical tool and I for one would need additional persuasion before setting it aside. (For example, I ridicule Der Trhis’ ideas and presentation somewhat often.) But I have to agree with you that the practice appeals to less attractive side of human nature. One possible filter: never ridicule before other methods have been tried first. This isn’t part of my code of conduct: I’m just stating a possibility. ## More restrictive: first try to teach the listener proper methods of using utensils. Unfortunately, most will resist such instruction. The OP: pretty odd. If he was linking to a GD thread it would be one thing. But **Aswan** objected to the treatment of KGS, in a Pit-thread that KGS started to attack Der Trihs. Jeez. All the same, I see from the post above that KGS seems to have taken everything in stride which is reassuring. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/72 "2008-11-24T02:47:44Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > It doesn’t offend me that deeply. Well, misrepresenting the entire discipline of science IS pretty goddamned offensive - but really, I’m just in love with the sound of my own voice. LOL aren’t we all. I dunno that someone CAN misrepresent science. Either they are right or they’re not, no? ---
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/73 "2008-11-24T04:56:06Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I agree with the major thrust of the OP, but I do wonder about something. I’d hate if claiming a mental illness (or development disability) was enough to give someone _carte blanche_ around here. What if **KGS** had posted blatantly offensive beliefs? Like saying all white people were going to hell or that all Jews have horns and forked tongues? Would we be permitted to ridicule him in that case, or would kid gloves still be called for? Why should it matter? Mental illness can make a person say all kinds of wacky things. > > I also don’t like having different standards for different people. **KGS’s** posts, while out in left field, aren’t that much crazier that what other posters have said in the past. I’m thinking specifically of trolls. Yet no one ever begged for special treatment on their behalf. It just seems unfair to ask the more pugnacious Dopers to give special treatment to some posters but not others. And personally, I’d hate for someone to not engage me intellectually because they think I’m “tetched” in the head. What if I hold an opinion that, while unorthodox, is NOT the result of mental misfirings and yet no one bothers to take it seriously? That strikes me as condescending. Uh, guys? Can we (and by “we” I mean “you”) argue this for a while, please? \*\*Monstro \*\*brings up very good points that I think get to the heart of the issue, and I’d really like to hear a debate about them. Sadly, I’m not smart/experienced/thought-out/informed/some-combination-thereof enough to jump in myself, but plenty of you are. Pretty please? As a sidenote, don’t you just love it (and by “love it” I mean “find it :smack:-ingly frustrating”) when really intelligent, thoughtful posts seem to just get lost in the fray? Or am I just in the wrong forum for this? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/74 "2008-11-24T05:03:46Z")
> [@supergoose](#): > > As a sidenote, don’t you just love it (and by “love it” I mean “find it :smack:-ingly frustrating”) when really intelligent, thoughtful posts seem to just get lost in the fray? Or am I just in the wrong forum for this? This. Sometimes its better just to start a new topic elsewhere and link to the pit thread’s post that shone out to you. Which you might want to considering doing if you really want to continue the debate, civilly at least. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/75 "2008-11-24T06:56:55Z")
From **Rubystreak** : > [@](#): > > KGS is not a hero or a victim. Give it a rest. > [@](#): > > He’s a big boy and can take care of himself. I seem to remember that you suggested that he might want to seek outside help. Sometimes you are so lacking in basic psychological skills and insight that I wonder how you ever ended up in a classroom. **Monstro** , your comments do need to be addressed. People are equal in someways and unequal in others. They should be equal in the eyes of the law and have equal rights and privileges. For example they should have equal access to the best education available to them. But that doesn’t mean that they should have the _same_ education. Children learn in different ways and each child should be taught beginning at the level where she or he is and in the way that (s)he learns best. Some people who are mentally ill will need to be treated differently at differently times in their lives. It would be cruel not to recognize that that person’s brain is functioning under a diminished capacity for which he is not to blame. We don’t treat Alzheimers patients the same as we always have. It isn’t condescending to expect someone in chemotherapy for cancer not to have much energy. Even when a friend has a bad day, we cut them some slack. Is it condescending to be kind or to give someone the benefit of the doubt? People can’t will themselves out of mental illness. If they “can,” then it wasn’t a mental illness to begin with. Meanwhile, there are things that some can do to make life more bearable. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/76 "2008-11-24T07:05:41Z")
One law for the lion and the ox is oppression. - William Blake (some idiot who believed in spirits probably auras too.) ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/77 "2008-11-24T13:39:21Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I seem to remember that you suggested that he might want to seek outside help. > > Sometimes you are so lacking in basic psychological skills and insight that I wonder how you ever ended up in a classroom. I take the man at his word. He says he’s not mentally ill, then it doesn’t matter what I think. It is indeed my lack of psychological skills to diagnose someone over the internet that cause me to take him at his word. Do you think you know better than he does? He IS a grown man and he CAN handle some ribbing on a message board. And making cracks about how I do my job because we disagree on a message board is a cheap shot and just proves what a mean-spirited bitch you are. I do so wish you could just put me on your IGNORE list rather than making comments like this, which show you for what you are. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/78 "2008-11-24T14:19:57Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Galileo was a pussy. Galileo continued advancing science even after he was mostly blind. (Can you explain Lunar libration to me, you New Age genius? Incidentally, this “New Age” stuff was ancient bullshit in Galileo’s time.) And he had a Venetian mistress named Maria Gamba, which by itself makes him cooler than you’ll ever be. You, as far as I can tell, are just dumping your own little load on an already huge pile of useless shit. Punk. (That’s not an _ad hominem_ attack in lieu of argument; it’s just an insult, intended to be taken personally. Because I don’t like you.) ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/79 "2008-11-24T14:45:35Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > Galileo continued advancing science even after he was mostly blind. (Can you explain Lunar libration to me, you New Age genius? Incidentally, this “New Age” stuff was ancient bullshit in Galileo’s time.) > > And he had a Venetian mistress named Maria Gamba, which by itself makes him cooler than you’ll ever be. Really? I thought he was gay. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107/80 "2008-11-24T15:00:04Z")
The OP is a concern troll. If concern for **KGS** ’s welfare was the major issue, it is counterproductive to stir up a dead “debate”, attract **KGS** into posting again and draw the ire of other posters once more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kgs-sad-sdmb-sadder/474107.md?page=5)