# Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admits masterminding 9/11 (and 30 other plots)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [March 15, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029 "2007-03-15T13:43:20Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/1 "2007-03-15T13:43:20Z")
Story [here](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6452789.stm) and [here.](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,436061,00.html)
1. Mohammed (whom they’re now calling “the Forrest Gump of terrorism”) has been in custody since 2003 and [may have been tortured.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed#Capture.2C_Interrogation_and_Torture.3F) Does this give us reason to doubt his confession?
2. Does this mean Osama bin Laden is off the hook? 😉
---
### Author:  [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/2 "2007-03-15T14:05:46Z")
On 1., sure. Could be some truth to it, though. But he could be being boastful. Or deceptive. Or he’s deluded about some of the things. Or a combination of the lot (which would be my bet).
Without a good account of who asked him and told him what at a particular time, what he said under what conditions and a trail of physical evidence I doubt we’ll ever have much of a clue.
---
### Author:  [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/3 "2007-03-15T14:12:54Z")
Well, whatever the truth, the confession has served its purpose: it got AG Gonzales and the prosecutor-firing scandal off the front page.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/4 "2007-03-15T15:12:24Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley]
Well, whatever the truth, the confession has served its purpose: it got AG Gonzales and the prosecutor-firing scandal off the front page.
[/QUOTE]
It’s still on the front page of todays NYT. (But below the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed story, and with a smaller-type headline.)
---
### Author:  [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/5 "2007-03-15T15:32:51Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
It’s still on the front page of todays NYT. (But below the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed story, and with a smaller-type headline.)
[/QUOTE]
I think my point stands. It pushed Gonzales off the front page of [CNN.com](http://CNN.com).
---
### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/6 "2007-03-15T15:44:54Z")
A “confession” at a hearing where Defendant’s lawyer was not allowed to be present.
Hell, I wipe my ass with stuff worth more than that…
---
### Author:  [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/7 "2007-03-15T16:38:17Z")
This confession is worthless. Any conviction based, even in part, on it would be similarly worthless.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/8 "2007-03-15T17:24:39Z")
[Pit thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=412423)
---
### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/9 "2007-03-15T17:36:43Z")
I’ll just note that I have no idea why this confession is in the news now, when he had already confessed before. If only there was a reason to release this “confession” now, when it’s already been in the news for years.
---
### Author:  [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/10 "2007-03-15T18:21:43Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet]
I’ll just note that I have no idea why this confession is in the news now, when he had already confessed before. If only there was a reason to release this “confession” now, when it’s already been in the news for years.
[/QUOTE]
The Tribunal Hearing to determine his status as Enemy Combatant was held on March 10, 2007. Its details have just now been released. Here’s the PDF [full transcript](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_03_07_mohammed_transcript.pdf).
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
1. Mohammed (whom they’re now calling “the Forrest Gump of terrorism”) has been in custody since 2003 and [may have been tortured.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed#Capture.2C_Interrogation_and_Torture.3F) Does this give us reason to doubt his confession?
[/quote]
Unacceptable citation. It’s bad enough that it’s a Wiki cite, let alone the fact that it’s (currently) untrue. From the transcript:
> [@](#):
>
> Page 15
> TRIBUNAL PRESIDENT: Is there anything you would like to correct, amend, modify or explain to us from what you said back then?
> DETAINEE: I want to just it is not related enemy combatant but I’m saying for you to be careful with people. That you have classified and unclassified facts. My opinion to be fair with people. Because when I say, I will not regret when I say I’m an enemy combatant. I did or not I know there are but there are many Detainees which you receive classified against them maybe, maybe not take away from me for many Detainees false witness. This only advice.
> PRESIDENT: So you are aware that other …
> DETAINEE: Yes.
> PRESIDENT: … people made false statement as a result of this?
> DETAINEE: I did also.
> […]
> Page 16
> PRESIDENT: Now what.
> DETAINEE: For me nothing which was recorded. For which is written here is not related.
> […]
> PRESIDENT: The information that you are telling us today, so we are clear. You do not believe you are under any pressure or threat or duress to speak to us today, is that correct?
> DETAINEE: Yes, that’s correct.
In other words (I know his English is bad), Khalid says he was “tortured” in order to make him name names. “Do you know so-and-so?” _snap, crackle, pop_
Claiming a “Senior Moment” he doesn’t now remember many of the names he was compelled to name. What Khalid does know is that he is indeed an Enemy Combatant and that the alleged mistreatment in 2003 does not change that fact.
> [@BG](#):
>
> 1. Does this mean Osama bin Laden is off the hook? 😉
In his Tribunal statement he pledges Bay’aat (fealty) to UBL. So no.
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/11 "2007-03-15T19:16:48Z")
We are known to torture people we claim to be terrorists, therefore any confession to anything by such a person is meaningless. There’s nothing this man could say that I’d believe, while he’s in the custody of America.
---
### Author:  [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/12 "2007-03-15T19:39:09Z")
El Cid, his tribunal statement was made without the presence of counsel or press in the presence of those who are alleged to have mistreated him. We can’t know if he actually said it, let alone that it wasn’t coerced.
It’s worthless.
---
### Author:  [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/13 "2007-03-15T19:59:12Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
We are known to torture people we claim to be terrorists, therefore any confession to anything by such a person is meaningless. There’s nothing this man could say that I’d believe, while he’s in the custody of America.
[/QUOTE]
Induction Fallacy. By your (il)logic the entire US Criminal Justice System should be thrown out because a detective whacked a suspected sneak-thief with a phone book in order to extract a list of accomplices.
According to all reports, Khalid was neither racked nor in thumbscrews during this hearing. As noted above he was given ample opportunity to state that he was under duress or that his enumerative statement pertaining to the hearing was given under pain of torture. He stated the opposite. Therefore, there are no facts to support the notion that his testimony should not be believed.
> [@Menocchio](#):
>
> El Cid, his tribunal statement was made without the presence of counsel or press in the presence of those who are alleged to have mistreated him.
For an Enemy Combatant Status Hearing the Tribunal System affords only a “Personal Representative” for the Detainee. Please present a cite demonstrating the presence at the Tribunal of the CIA Officers alleged to have mistreated Khalid.
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/14 "2007-03-15T20:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso]
According to all reports, Khalid was neither racked nor in thumbscrews during this hearing. As noted above he was given ample opportunity to state that he was under duress or that his enumerative statement pertaining to the hearing was given under pain of torture. He stated the opposite.
[/quote]
:rolleyes: Oh, _please_. Of _course_ he’d say that; we’d torture him if we didn’t. He’s not the only person we’ve terrorized into claiming we didn’t torture him.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/15 "2007-03-15T20:20:27Z")
[IMHO thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=412416)
---
### Author:  [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/16 "2007-03-15T20:21:41Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
:rolleyes: Oh, _please_.
[/quote]
Bombast.
> [@](#):
>
> Of _course_ he’d say that; we’d torture him if we didn’t.
Circular argument.
> [@](#):
>
> He’s not the only person we’ve terrorized into claiming we didn’t torture him.
Cite to prove he’s been “terrorized into claiming” he wasn’t tortured. And since “he’s not the only person,” cite the other example(s), please.
---
### Author:  [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/17 "2007-03-15T20:40:09Z")
I think the onus is on you to prove he was not tortured, given that we already know he was held in a secret CIA detention facility that was not on US soil, or even US controlled.
If he was not tortured, then why was he not held in Guantanamo, but instead held in limbo?
Why does this announcement come after 4 years of captivity ?
Don’t you imagine that the US leadership would have been itching to tell the world of his capture ? of course they would, unless they had another purpose in mind for him.
No, given the US behaviour on human rights, you prove he wasn’t tortured,
Oh I’m so sorry, you cannot, this is impossible, and do you know why ?
It’s called oversight dude, simple as that.
---
### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/18 "2007-03-15T22:23:19Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso]
The Tribunal Hearing to determine his status as Enemy Combatant was held on March 10, 2007. Its details have just now been released. Here’s the PDF [full transcript](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_03_07_mohammed_transcript.pdf).
[/quote]
No, at least part of his confession was known back in 2004, when he gave it. [Report](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1052662.ece).
It also came up during the Moussaoui trial.
---
### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/19 "2007-03-15T22:37:05Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Story [here](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6452789.stm) and [here.](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,436061,00.html)
1. Mohammed (whom they’re now calling “the Forrest Gump of terrorism”) has been in custody since 2003 and [may have been tortured.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_Shaikh_Mohammed#Capture.2C_Interrogation_and_Torture.3F) Does this give us reason to doubt his confession?
2. Does this mean Osama bin Laden is off the hook? 😉
[/QUOTE]
He also was the first to climb the Matterhorn, found Dr. Livingston, invented printing from movable type and proved that π is irrational.
---
### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [March 15, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029/20 "2007-03-15T22:51:05Z")
I don’t like the idea of the CIA torturing people any more than anyone else does, but consider this:
The government says that information obtained from KSM under torture allowed them to foil a plot to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge.
Something to think about. Especially if you use the Brooklyn Bridge.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-admits-masterminding-9-11-and-30-other-plots/396029.md?page=2)