# Kid guilty of dressing in black to be freed after 8 years in prison **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107 "2008-01-19T01:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/21 "2008-01-20T06:57:37Z")
[QUOTE=Inner Stickler] What exactly are you trying to prove here? [/QUOTE] I want to see exactly what the Op _actually know_s about the case, before he convicts the legal system and the jury on even less evidence than he accuses them of having. Note that he wouldn’t answer my questions. Really, judging things based upon a few biased media articles is not a good way of doing things. Try some _research._ He’s accusing them of making up their minds on little evidence, which is exactly what he’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/22 "2008-01-20T07:11:28Z")
Oh, is that what you’re doing? And here I thought you were just being an asshole. It was pretty clear to me that the dressing in black remark was meant to capture the tone of the drama and not as a statement of fact. Now, if you have a cite that rebuts the claim of the articles that the guy’s trial was a farce, we’ll all be more than happy to look at them and discuss it. But if you’re simply going to make snarky remarks, well that’s not really fun for anyone, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/23 "2008-01-20T16:56:56Z")
I totally mis-parsed that thread title and came in here to find out how dressing in black could get someone freed from prison. :o ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/24 "2008-01-20T18:05:23Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Well, I guess you have _not_ actually read the trial transcript and interviewed the jury Members. All you did was read a few biased newspaper articles, right? So, you know nothing about the case, either, do you? [/QUOTE] While you haven’t even read that. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: Ah, yes, well when you put it that way, I have no choice but to agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/25 "2008-01-20T18:31:17Z")
[QUOTE=Licentious Ectomorph] I totally mis-parsed that thread title and came in here to find out how dressing in black could get someone freed from prison. :o [/QUOTE] They let Johnny Cash out of Folsom and San Quentin, didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/26 "2008-01-20T18:43:25Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Well, I guess you have _not_ actually read the trial transcript and interviewed the jury Members. [/QUOTE] I too wanted to express an opinion on this case, but my efforts in tracking down the jury have proven a little fruitless. Marcie’s on an extended cruise, and Tom isn’t returning my calls. Worse still, old Dan died of a heart attack, so even if I can track the others down, I could still only score a maximum of 11/12, which I guess means neither me, nor anyone else, is ever going to be able to hold a valid point of view. What a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/27 "2008-01-20T18:46:03Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Well, I guess you have _not_ actually read the trial transcript and interviewed the jury Members. All you did was read a few biased newspaper articles, right? So, you know nothing about the case, either, do you? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Here’s what i know about the case - I lived in Ft. Collins at the time of the murder and followed the investigation. I know that a large number of people, including some of the police involved in prosecuting the case, had decided that the conviction was bogus and the prosecutors hid exculpatory evidence. I know that these people convinced the Ft. Collins authorities to take a new look at the evidence in the case and it resulted in testing the DNA evidence which proved that Masters was not guilty. I’ve read multiple newspaper accounts of the case. Do you think that all the reporters were taking a cofee break when the prosecutors showed the jury a videotape of Masters commiting the crime and his teary confession? Take a seat on the bench reserved for those who wade into a discussion they have no business being in, and can’t admit when they’re wrong. **Zoe** and **Brazil84** have been keeping it warm for you. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/28 "2008-01-20T19:53:12Z")
Surely no one here is saying that the average jury isn’t swayed by things like dressing in black, listening to metal, drawing gory pictures, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/29 "2008-01-20T20:24:18Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Surely no one here is saying that the average jury isn’t swayed by things like dressing in black, listening to metal, drawing gory pictures, etc. [/QUOTE] Have you interviewed every single person who’s ever served on a jury? Well, have you? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/30 "2008-01-20T23:31:12Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] Have you interviewed every single person who’s ever served on a jury? Well, have you? [/QUOTE] Dude, I’m on your side- I’m saying juries _are_ swayed by stuff like this, maybe I just didn’t phrase my smarm properly. Check out my thread on the railroading of the WM3 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/31 "2008-01-20T23:34:22Z")
don’t look up, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/32 "2008-01-20T23:43:09Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Could you be more specific? There were surely many thousands of sexual assault convictions in the 1980s, just like in every other decade. I assume the OP is referring to the [McMartin preschool case.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial) [/QUOTE] Just to set the record straight, as you will see in that cite: > [@](#): > > After six years of criminal trials, **no convictions were obtained,** and all charges were dropped in 1990. (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/33 "2008-01-20T23:52:18Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Well, I guess you have _not_ actually read the trial transcript and interviewed the jury Members. All you did was read a few biased newspaper articles, right? So, you know nothing about the case, either, do you? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Interviewed the jury members? Seriously? Listen you to yourself. Are you completely out of your mind? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/34 "2008-01-21T00:27:05Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] Just to set the record straight, as you will see in that cite:(bolding mine) [/QUOTE] True, but they should never have been filed in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/35 "2008-01-21T05:47:37Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] While you haven’t even read that. . [/QUOTE] Indeed I have, as a reading of my posts will show. Yes, indeed I can hardly expect the OP to interview the entire jury. But maybe he could have read a reporters interview of even one member of the jury. No. And, getting the transcript and reading it isn’t too hard. I am unimpressed about the factoid that the Op lived in the same town. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/36 "2008-01-21T06:16:11Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Before the OP can go throwing around statements like “kid guilty (only) of dressing in black” he needs to see exactly what evidence was presented to the jury and what of that evidence conviced the jury. [/QUOTE] Well, what exactly WAS he guilty of then, genius? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/37 "2008-01-21T13:56:04Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Indeed I have, as a reading of my posts will show. [/QUOTE] Having just read your posts, I’d say that you are a pissy snot who has unrealistic and stupid ideas about pit threads and who needs to shut the fuck up. But I haven’t interviewed you, so what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/38 "2008-01-21T14:08:53Z")
[QUOTE=Menocchio] They let Johnny Cash out of Folsom and San Quentin, didn’t they? [/QUOTE] Just to watch him die. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/39 "2008-01-21T15:32:02Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Indeed I have, as a reading of my posts will show. Yes, indeed I can hardly expect the OP to interview the entire jury. But maybe he could have read a reporters interview of even one member of the jury. No. And, getting the transcript and reading it isn’t too hard. I am unimpressed about the factoid that the Op lived in the same town. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Are you equally unimpressed at the fact that tomorrow his conviction will be vacated and he will be a free man? Do you think the judge who is going to set him free has read the transcripts? Please do carry on bleating the same lines over and over again even though they have no point. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/40 "2008-01-22T02:17:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] Are you equally unimpressed at the fact that tomorrow his conviction will be vacated and he will be a free man? Do you think the judge who is going to set him free has read the transcripts? . [/QUOTE] His conviction being vacated has _nothing_ to do with the Original evidence against him being insuffient. That was undoubtedly fought over in various Courts of Appeals years ago and found to be suff for a conviction. His new trial is based upon _new_ DNA evidence coming forward. I am not disputing that the new evidence should make his free. Can you find any post where I said that? What I am disputing is your hypocrisy and lack of any real knowledge about the orginal case. You claim the only evidence against him was that he dressed in black. :rolleyes: You condemn the original Judge and Jury of thus condeming an innocent man upon no evidence at all, wheras you have _no fucking idea_ of what evidence they actually heard or what evidence convinced the jury. You are thus guilty of convicting them with evidence as scanty as you accuse them of having. It’s great that the poor kid has got _new_ DNA evidence that will set him free. That does _not_ mean that the original evidence against him was in any way as shoddy as you claimed it to be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107.md?page=3)