# Kid guilty of dressing in black to be freed after 8 years in prison **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107 "2008-01-19T01:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/61 "2008-01-22T20:38:17Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Do you have a cite for that? TIA! [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=The Denver Post] During the past two years, Masters’ appeals attorneys have argued that Masters, as a 15-year-old, could not have inflicted the meticulous wounds to Hettrick’s genitalia and nipple. They have pointed to another sex offender who also lived nearby, Dr. Richard Hammond, as the possible killer, given his sexual obsessions and surgical skill. Evidence linked to Hammond, however, had been destroyed by Fort Collins police. Quick made a point Friday of saying that Hammond is not the alternate suspect behind the genetic material found on Hettrick’s clothing. [/QUOTE] > **[DA urges Masters’ release](https://www.denverpost.com/2008/01/18/da-urges-masters-release/)** > > DA urges Masters’ release ---
**Author:** ![usar\_jag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@usar\_jag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usar_jag)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/62 "2008-01-22T21:40:22Z")
One could always read Masters’ appeal to find out about the evidence that ended up convicting him: **Masters v. People, 58 P.3d 979** It appears that the defendant was mentally unstable and had the same weapons used to commit the crime (A knife with a 5" serrated blade and a scalpel). He also told the police that the victim was wearing pink shoes. When the victim was found, her pants were covering her feet, and she was wearing pink socks. Judging from the appeal, the jury didn’t make a patently bad decision, based on the evidence that they were presented. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/63 "2008-01-22T21:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] > **[DA urges Masters’ release](https://www.denverpost.com/2008/01/18/da-urges-masters-release/)** > > DA urges Masters’ release [/QUOTE] I don’t see where in that article it says that Dr. Hammond knew the victim or lived within a few hundred yards of the crime scene. Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/64 "2008-01-22T22:07:35Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I don’t see where in that article it says that Dr. Hammond knew the victim or lived within a few hundred yards of the crime scene. Did I miss something? [/QUOTE] [http://cbs4denver.com/local/denver.murder.masters.2.562239.html](http://cbs4denver.com/local/denver.murder.masters.2.562239.html) > [@](#): > > “You’ve got a doctor who is obsessed with female genitalia living 100 yards from where Peggy Hettrick’s body was found,” Chambers said. I have read that Dr. Hammond and Hetrick were social acquaintances, but I can’t find a cite because of the huge volume of hits Google is returning today. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/65 "2008-01-22T22:22:19Z")
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane] [http://cbs4denver.com/local/denver.murder.masters.2.562239.html](http://cbs4denver.com/local/denver.murder.masters.2.562239.html) I have read that Dr. Hammond and Hetrick were social acquaintances, but I can’t find a cite because of the huge volume of hits Google is returning today. [/QUOTE] Hmmm. Well, anyway, based on what you’ve provided I would not call Dr. Hammond a stronger alternate suspect. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/66 "2008-01-23T03:11:25Z")
[QUOTE=Jayn\_Newell] Reality check. NO ONE besides _you_ has claimed that the kid was convicted for merely wearing black. [/QUOTE] What’s the OP’s title " **Kid guilty of dressing in black to be freed after 8 years in prison"**. So, no one besides the OP, you mean. **brazil84** : thanks, good cite. Nice to see someone who can research. **Zebra** : good point. Masters was what- 30? when he was convicted? And the Police certainly can’t be blamed for being in a hurry to convict _some_body, _any_body. I have to admit that the evidence wasn’t all that great, and the Police and DA did some rather sketchy things, too. Still, there\* was \*evidence. However- the OP did write his own title " **Kid guilty of dressing in black to be freed after 8 years in prison"** ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/67 "2008-01-23T03:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] What’s the OP’s title " **Kid guilty of dressing in black to be freed after 8 years in prison"**. So, no one besides the OP, you mean. [/QUOTE] So, you tell us what else he was guilty of. Not what he was convicted for. Not what there was evidence for. You tell us _what he was guilty of_. Seriously, with all your claims about fighting ignorance, you have no reading comprehension at all. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/68 "2008-01-23T03:43:04Z")
It obviously hasn’t occurred to **DrDeth** that the OP might have used that title because “Kid guilty of being goth, finding the body, and having violent drawings in his room to be freed after 8 years in prison” is too long for a thread title, so he used a little creativity in shortening it. **Nowhere** in the OP did it state that Masters was actually found guilty **only** because he dressed in black. Have we instituted a policy that thread titles must clearly and completely describe the OP? If we have, a lot of us are in big trouble. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/69 "2008-01-23T03:46:09Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] So, you tell us what else he was guilty of. Not what he was convicted for. Not what there was evidence for. You tell us _what he was guilty of_. Seriously, with all your claims about fighting ignorance, you have no reading comprehension at all. [/QUOTE] He wasn’t guilty of anything, he’s been exonerated- haven’t you read the thread at all? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/70 "2008-01-23T03:52:15Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] He wasn’t guilty of anything, he’s been exonerated- haven’t you read the thread at all? 😕 [/QUOTE] Holy shit, dude. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/71 "2008-01-23T03:55:58Z")
[QUOTE=LurkMeister] It obviously hasn’t occurred to **DrDeth** that the OP might have used that title because “Kid guilty of being goth, finding the body, and having violent drawings in his room to be freed after 8 years in prison” is too long for a thread title, so he used a little creativity in shortening it. **Nowhere** in the OP did it state that Masters was actually found guilty **only** because he dressed in black. Have we instituted a policy that thread titles must clearly and completely describe the OP? If we have, a lot of us are in big trouble. [/QUOTE] I asked the Op exactly what the evidence was that the Jury heard. He has no idea, and can’t be bothered to look it up. :rolleyes: That’s the issue. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/72 "2008-01-23T04:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] I asked the Op exactly what the evidence was that the Jury heard. He has no idea, and can’t be bothered to look it up. :rolleyes: That’s the issue. [/QUOTE] If that’s the issue, then why do you keep insisting that the OP stated that Masters was convicted “only” of dressing in black after it has been made clear that the the conviction was based on other factors? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/73 "2008-01-23T05:42:35Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] I asked the Op exactly what the evidence was that the Jury heard. He has no idea, and can’t be bothered to look it up. :rolleyes: That’s the issue. [/QUOTE] I’ve looked it up. read it, and posted it repeatedly in this thread. If you want a fucking transcript, this is the wrong place to get it. Now that Masters’ conviction has been vacated and he is free and unlikely to be retried, what exactly is your fucking problem? ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/74 "2008-01-23T14:26:56Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] He wasn’t guilty of anything, he’s been exonerated- haven’t you read the thread at all? 😕 [/QUOTE] That. Is. The. Fucking. Point. “Dressing in black” was just shorthand for being goth, which is essentially why he was found guilty. Everyone in this thread except you seems to grasp this. What part of “the police based their investigation on the assumption of his guilt and rigged the evidence to convict him, all because he happened to be goth like umpteen other million teenagers” are you having trouble with? It doesn’t matter what evidence the jury had at that point, **because it had already been slanted in favour of finding Masters guilty by the time they heard it.** Is it just me, or are we having an unusual amount of stupid roaming around here these days? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/75 "2008-01-23T16:27:42Z")
[QUOTE=Jayn\_Newell] That. Is. The. Fucking. Point. “Dressing in black” was just shorthand for being goth, which is essentially why he was found guilty. [/quote] What percentage of goth kids keep survival knives and scalpels around? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/76 "2008-01-23T16:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=Jayn\_Newell] Is it just me, or are we having an unusual amount of stupid roaming around here these days? [/QUOTE] It’s definitely not just you. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/77 "2008-01-23T16:35:59Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] What percentage of goth kids keep survival knives and scalpels around? [/QUOTE] 18.64% ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/78 "2008-01-23T16:39:34Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] What percentage of goth kids keep survival knives and scalpels around? [/QUOTE] I know a number of people (goth or otherwise) who keep knives and other bladed objects around–actually, growing up in a rural area it was just plain common (knives are pretty useful, ya know). Hell, I have some myself. Scalpels are a bit different though. Look, I’m not saying there wasn’t evidence to suggest he did it. I’m just saying that evidence that suggested he didn’t was ignored, mainly because he wore black, liked to draw and for whatever reason liked to keep knives around. To me, he sounds like he was a fairly typical teenager. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/79 "2008-01-23T16:57:40Z")
[QUOTE=Jayn\_Newell] I know a number of people (goth or otherwise) who keep knives and other bladed objects around–actually, growing up in a rural area it was just plain common (knives are pretty useful, ya know). Hell, I have some myself. Scalpels are a bit different though. [/quote] Well, that’s a problem with the “he was convicted only because he was a goth” argument. There was other evidence against him too. Probably he shouldn’t have been convicted, but this is NOT a situation involving a defendant who is clearly innocent. > [@](#): > > Look, I’m not saying there wasn’t evidence to suggest he did it. I’m just saying that evidence that suggested he didn’t was ignored, mainly because he wore black, liked to draw and for whatever reason liked to keep knives around. That’s not exactly what you said before. What you said before was that essentially he was found guilty because he was a goth. To me, this is an overstatement. As I said earlier, it’s quite a coincidence that a woman is murdered in a sexual fashion by a lefty who uses a serrated knife and a scalpel, and there just happens to be a lefty who owns a serrated knife and a scalpel, who has fantasies about murdering women in sexual fashions, living within eyeshot of the crime scene; and who admitted to seeing the body but not reporting it. The fact is that there was a lot of circumstantial evidence against Masters. Yes, he probably should not have been convicted. But that’s different from saying that he did not commit the crime or saying that there was essentially no evidence inculpating him. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107/80 "2008-01-23T17:22:47Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] WThat’s not exactly what you said before. What you said before was that essentially he was found guilty because he was a goth. To me, this is an overstatement. [/QUOTE] I think at this point we may simply be splitting hairs. I didn’t come here to argue with you over semantics, and I don’t really feel like continuing this. My main point was that being a goth made him stand out, and so people jumped to conclusions. Understandable, somewhat, but the real shame was that the police did the same, and focused on him when building their case. I have to admit I feel sorry for him as a teenager. Being different in a small community just plain sucks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kid-guilty-of-dressing-in-black-to-be-freed-after-8-years-in-prison/434107.md?page=5)