# Kiddie Porn or Art? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2000, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-or-art/47368 "2000-12-27T13:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-or-art/47368/61 "2001-01-03T18:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jb\_farley \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by domina \* > > \*\*Couldn’t such a book be illustrated with drawings or something? \*\* > > Yup, but if these photos are illegal, then so would drawings showing what the photos show. \*\* IIRC, the Supreme Court recently ruled that the child porn exception to free speech only reaches content which was created by the actual use of a child engaged in sexual conduct or in sexually explicit poses. Drawings made without a model are not covered by the exemption and are protected free speech (unless, of course, they are also obscene). ---
**Author:** ![domina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@domina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/domina)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-or-art/47368/62 "2001-01-04T01:15:27Z")
Stoidela wrote: > [@](#): > > Modesty is a learned response, as evidenced by children and the cultures in the world where nudity is no big damn deal. Our desire to cover ourselves (apart from protection from the elements) is our nuture, not our nature. I’m not talking about nudity here, I’m talking about sex, which is a different issue (as others have pointed out). What I’m saying is that even in cultures where people wear practically nothing, they still seek privacy for sexual _acts_. This tendency is so universal that it’s probably innate (Jared Diamond wrote about this in _The Third Chimpanzee_, but I don’t have it on hand). That’s why I, like some others on this board, think pictures of nude children aren’t inherently bad but pictures of them masturbating and getting sexually aroused is crossing the line. It can be hard to tease out what’s nature and what’s nurture I know, but is there any real evidence that people are naturally exhibitionists? ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-or-art/47368/63 "2001-01-04T01:44:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Drawings made without a model are not covered by the exemption and are protected free speech (unless, of course, they are also obscene). Does that scare anyone else that a person could be arrested for drawing a picture in their own home, based on an obscenity charge? jb ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-or-art/47368/64 "2001-01-04T10:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not talking about nudity here, I’m talking about sex Am I the only one who missed the part where the OP said “The book also displayed a picture of two 8-year-old kids going at it like a couple of love-starved monkeys”? We’re NOT talking about sex. We’re talking about nekkid kids being comfortable with themselves. A penis does not disappear the instant you pull your trousers on, so why should we try to teach kids otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![domina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@domina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/domina)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-or-art/47368/65 "2001-01-05T02:31:12Z")
I was thinking of the masturbation and erection pictures. That isn’t intercourse, but it sure seems like sexual acts to me. (And if they aren’t, what’s the point of doing them?) ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-or-art/47368/66 "2001-01-05T07:42:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I was thinking of the masturbation and erection pictures. That isn’t intercourse, but it sure seems like sexual acts to me. Oh, I see. You’re talking to the wrong guy, then… not even sex seems sexual to me. And the picture (of the girl with older-brother-esque figure) doesn’t strike me as “masturbation”… although, since I don’t have a vagina, I don’t know exactly how often a young girl would stick a finger into it… but I DO know that kids are curious lil’ devils. Just differing points of view, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-or-art/47368.md?page=3)