# Kiddie porn producers: who are these people?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 15, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241 "2008-12-15T14:57:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/1 "2008-12-15T14:57:08Z")
If I had to guess, all producers of kiddie porn are pedophiles who are producing the material for their own gratification and distributing it on the side. Has there ever been a case of kiddie porn production where it was just a business or is that just a plot device in movies?
Thanks for your help,
Rob
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/2 "2008-12-15T15:55:03Z")
IIRC there were adolescent (not really “kiddy” but young teen) porn mags &/or movies from some mainstream (for hardcore porn) company in the Netherlands (forget name possibly “Vivid”) that were part of some larger operation in the 70’s and 80’s that got shut down some time ago when this type of porn became illegal in their countries. The “legit” arm of the business is still in operation.
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### Author:  [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/3 "2008-12-15T15:58:39Z")
I don’t think it was Vivid–Color Climax maybe?
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/4 "2008-12-15T16:01:17Z")
> [@Savannah](#):
>
> I don’t think it was Vivid–Color Climax maybe?
[You’re right - From wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Climax_Corporation)
> [@](#):
>
> Also notable is the fact that Color Climax was one of the only large-scale commercial producers of child pornography in the modern history of erotica to openly advertise the fact.[citation needed] Although generally not mentioned by the multi-national corporation of today, from 1969 to 1979 Color Climax was responsible for the relatively large-scale distribution of child pornography.[1] Though participation by such a mainstream studio was unique to Denmark, it generally did not reflect a wide-spread societal acceptance of child pornography in the country at the time.[citation
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/5 "2008-12-15T16:12:46Z")
That wiki article doesn’t cite any sources. I’m skeptical that the company ever did that. How could they possibly get away with it?
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### Author:  [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/6 "2008-12-15T16:17:31Z")
[Blue Orchid](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/24/48hours/main526861.shtml) was an underground network in Russia that mass-produced child pornography. Other networks have taken their place, and many routinely get shut down, while others persist. It’s extremely tragic – most of the kids they abuse are taken from the streets, they don’t know any other life.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/7 "2008-12-15T17:06:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> That wiki article doesn’t cite any sources. I’m skeptical that the company ever did that. How could they possibly get away with it?
See
[Child Pornography](http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/child-pornography/commercial-production-and-distribution.html)
I could be wrong but I get the impression there were essentially \*no \*laws governing porn in Demark in the 70’s.
> [@](#):
>
> Commercial production and distribution
> During the 1960s and 1970s, Danish corporation Color Climax made a fortune producing and distributing child pornography. As child pornography became outlawed in various jurisdictions, Color Climax stopped producing such films. They continue to be one of the major producers of pornography in Europe, though they no longer produce child pornography and no longer mention that part of their history.
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
> By most accounts there appears to be little current commercially-produced child pornography. Most of what exists originates from private production as well as commercial production in the 1960s and 1970s. Investigations into commercial production and distribution of child pornography have turned up only isolated examples. The loss of anonymity by making payment, combined with the availability of free material, inhibits demand for commercial material, and the legal liability of receiving documented payment is a disincentive for supplying it. Media reports about child pornography rings almost exclusively refer to private, non-commercial exchange, but give the impression of a widespread criminal organization trading in child pornography.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/8 "2008-12-15T17:07:40Z")
I remember a television movie frm the early 80’s that was about a young, suburban, middle class girl (like 12 or 13 years old) who gets drawn into the lurid world of child pornography. In this movie, kiddie porn was depicted almost as a normal business industry, with a quasi-production company and distribution deals and everything. Something that stuck out for me and struck me (among other things) as being wildly improbable, was that the kiddie porn movies were shown at public theaters and advertised on marquees. The mom of this kid finds out her daughter is doing pr0n by seeing her in one of these theaters (I think she was tipped off or something).
In the hazy mists of my memory, I thought the main heavy (the pedophile/pornographer who draws the kid in) was played by John Lithgow, but asearch of IMDB does not turn up anything like what I remember. Does anybody have any idea what movie I’m talking about? It was probably around '81 or '82. At the time (I was maybe 14 or 15) I thought I was seeing a depiction of the child porn industry with documentary accuracy. Although it stuck in my mind (mostly because the topic was extraordinarily edgy for 80’s network television), in retrospect, the whole depiction was ridiculous and I’m amazed that anyone found it plausible.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/9 "2008-12-15T17:19:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> I remember a television movie frm the early 80’s that was about a young, suburban, middle class girl (like 12 or 13 years old) who gets drawn into the lurid world of child pornography. In this movie, kiddie porn was depicted almost as a normal business industry, with a quasi-production company and distribution deals and everything. Something that stuck out for me and struck me (among other things) as being wildly improbable, was that the kiddie porn movies were shown at public theaters and advertised on marquees. The mom of this kid finds out her daughter is doing pr0n by seeing her in one of these theaters (I think she was tipped off or something).
>
> In the hazy mists of my memory, I thought the main heavy (the pedophile/pornographer who draws the kid in) was played by John Lithgow, but asearch of IMDB does not turn up anything like what I remember. Does anybody have any idea what movie I’m talking about? It was probably around '81 or '82. At the time (I was maybe 14 or 15) I thought I was seeing a depiction of the child porn industry with documentary accuracy. Although it stuck in my mind (mostly because the topic was extraordinarily edgy for 80’s network television), in retrospect, the whole depiction was ridiculous and I’m amazed that anyone found it plausible.
There were some infamous scenarios in the 70’s where adult looking teenagers (15-17 or so) Like Tracy Lords (I assume there were others) started doing hard core before they were of legal age & these films were mass produced and shown in theatres. This will get your head cut off in the current environment so porn directors are very careful re verifying IDs these days. Is it possible this is the scenario youlre thinking of?
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### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/10 "2008-12-15T17:21:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> That wiki article doesn’t cite any sources. I’m skeptical that the company ever did that. How could they possibly get away with it?
The company is apparently famous for its vintage movies. From what is mentionned on various sites, I understand that under Danish law, the minimum age for porn actors was 15 until 1979 (some write until 2003, other that there used not to be no lower age limit, but I think “15 yo until 1979” is the most credible. I suspect it was identical to the age of consent, with no specific law for porn).
In any case, the fact that they used to produce child porn is mentionned on plenty of sites (porn movie forums, blogs about recent law cases in the US, books critics, etc…). Just google the name of the company + child pornography. So, I would assume it’s true, especially since the claim isn’t outlandish. It’s not like child pornography was as closely scrutinized in the 70s as it is now.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/11 "2008-12-15T17:22:59Z")
[quote=“Diogenes\_the\_Cynic, post:8, topic:477241”]
I remember a television movie frm the early 80’s that was about a young, suburban, middle class girl (like 12 or 13 years old) who gets drawn into the lurid world of child pornography.QUOTE]
Googling ‘child porn “movie of the week”’ gets this
[Fallen Angel](http://www.sell.com/23LHFN)
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/12 "2008-12-15T17:26:42Z")
And, I think the name of the Mag was “Fifteen”, supposedly showing 15yo girls. So,at the time, they weren’t “kiddy porn” anymore than a Modern Porn that advertises “18yo” models is.
The only other “real” kiddy porn I remember seeing in those days was “naturalist” magazines, some of which specialized in younger nudists. Those can possibly be legal today, but it’s too risky to print in todays climate, methinks.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/13 "2008-12-15T17:33:44Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> There were some infamous scenarios in the 70’s where adult looking teenagers (15-17 or so) Like Tracy Lords (I assume there were others) started doing hard core before they were of legal age & these films were mass produced and shown in theatres. This will get your head cut off in the current environment so porn directors are very careful re verifying IDs these days. Is it possible this is the scenario youlre thinking of?
No, I’m aware of the Tracy Lords scandal. This was a completely fictional depiction. The kids were really kids, not just underaged performers in nominally adult films (and if I recall correctly, Lords deceived her producers with a fake ID. I don’t believe anyone in the industry knew she was underaged until it was too late).
In the universe of the movie I saw, kiddy porn was available and advertised as kiddy porn in the old school, shady porn theaters.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/14 "2008-12-15T17:35:12Z")
[quote=“astro, post:11, topic:477241”]
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> I remember a television movie frm the early 80’s that was about a young, suburban, middle class girl (like 12 or 13 years old) who gets drawn into the lurid world of child pornography.QUOTE]
>
> Googling ‘child porn “movie of the week”’ gets this
> [Fallen Angel](http://www.sell.com/23LHFN)
That was it. Thanks. I guess it was Richard Masur, not John Lithgow.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/15 "2008-12-15T17:38:34Z")
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> The company is apparently famous for its vintage movies. From what is mentionned on various sites, I understand that under Danish law, the minimum age for porn actors was 15 until 1979 (some write until 2003, other that there used not to be no lower age limit, but I think “15 yo until 1979” is the most credible. I suspect it was identical to the age of consent, with no specific law for porn).
>
> In any case, the fact that they used to produce child porn is mentionned on plenty of sites (porn movie forums, blogs about recent law cases in the US, books critics, etc…). Just google the name of the company + child pornography. So, I would assume it’s true, especially since the claim isn’t outlandish. It’s not like child pornography was as closely scrutinized in the 70s as it is now.
Teenage jailbait, I can believe. I would think that publicly peddling porn featuring actual, prepuescent children would have still drawn law enforcement in any country, though – at least if it depicted any contact with adults. Maybe they could have gotten away with just nude photography.
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### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/16 "2008-12-15T23:06:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> . Maybe they could have gotten away with just nude photography.
I think (actually : I do hope) that nude photography of children is still perfectly legal in most places.
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### Author:  [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/17 "2008-12-15T23:51:59Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> Googling ‘child porn “movie of the week”’ gets this
You, sir, are a far braver man than I.
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### Author:  [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/18 "2008-12-16T00:00:00Z")
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> I think (actually : I do hope) that nude photography of children is still perfectly legal in most places.
It is, but the laws can be extremely subjective. FWIG, it often boils down to a judgement call by the court on whether or not the image is designed to be sexual in nature. We were advised in a photography class to verify ID’s for all nude models, and that while babies and toddlers were fair game, photographing anyone from say 4-17 was asking for trouble.
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### Author:  [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/19 "2008-12-16T00:11:24Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#):
>
> while babies and toddlers were fair game
In any other thread, I doubt I would have had the “eww eww eww” reaction I got from reading this.
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kiddie-porn-producers-who-are-these-people/477241/20 "2008-12-16T00:27:56Z")
I imagine in the days when all pornography was illegal, and alot of the industry run by organised crime, quite a bit of child pornography was produced (a mafioso running an illegal porn studio is hardly likely to check ID).
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