# Kids and firearm safety, your thoughts? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 27, 2010, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159 "2010-07-27T07:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/21 "2010-07-27T16:46:19Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > > [@Una\_Persson](#): > > > > > [@DragonAsh](#): > > > > > > 1. If the kid isn’t old enough to drive or smoke, they shouldn’t be playing around with guns. > > > > 1. Nobody in here was advocating “playing around” with guns. There were talking about teaching gun safety and use. > > > > 2. Since the age to buy tobacco in some (all?) States is 18, you in effect are saying “parents should never teach their kids gun safety while they’re kids.” > > > > Perhaps instead kids should learn about gun safety and use from their friends, TV, and the Internet? > > So you’re saying that kids learn about automobile safety from their friends, TV, and the Internet? > > In both cases, we’re talking about tools that should be understood and respected, but in both cases they’re particularly dangerous tools, which is why kids below a certain age shouldn’t be using them, even under adult supervision. Unfortunately, in most places in the U.S., automobiles are a virtual necessity for holding a job, dating, and other things that should be part of the normal teenager’s life. There are no parallel circumstances where use of firearms is similarly necessary. So it would seem to me that the minimum age for use of firearms should be at least as high as the minimum age for driving - and it would make sense for it to be higher. > [@](#): > > :: snip ::: > Perhaps instead kids should learn about gun safety and use from their friends, TV, and the Internet? I think you missed the sarcasm in the above. IMO, anyone can teach their children about anything at any age they chose. I really hate to see little kids throw away their arm pitching baseball at such a young age, or kids playing full contact football and dying in games or practice & on & on & on. But I don’t think that I should try to people to stop because I think I know better or get laws passed to stop what I don’t like… Raise you kids anyway you want. That is why home schooling is allowed and parents can refuse to have TV’s and not have cell phones or computers. But… If a parent wants to teach their young children about driving a car, tractor, boat, bicycle, small motor bike or… Then a lot of folks might like to get together to discuss what might be the best ways of doing so. It seems your way is to not do it or allow it or maybe you just misread what the poster was intending. Been reading posts by a lot of folks for a long time and in this case I will jump to the sarcasm interpretation long before the one you seem to have jumped to. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/22 "2010-07-27T16:54:35Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/23 "2010-07-27T16:56:04Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > IMO, anyone can teach their children about anything at any age they chose. Those weren’t the OP’s kids. Which is why I fail to see the need for him to be there as a resource. > [@](#): > > I really hate to see little kids throw away their arm pitching baseball at such a young age, or kids playing full contact football and dying in games or practice & on & on & on. But I don’t think that I should try to people to stop because I think I know better or get laws passed to stop what I don’t like… Raise you kids anyway you want. Actually, it’s a settled point that kids aren’t just property, and no, you can’t raise them any way you want. Parents are accorded a great deal of latitude in raising their children, but they don’t have a right to unduly risk their lives or health, nor do they have a right to deny them a basic education. > [@](#): > > It seems your way is to not do it or allow it or maybe you just misread what the poster was intending. Well yeah, we don’t allow kids to drive cars until they’re 16. My way, as is the way of the entire U.S. of A., is to not allow it. Yes indeed. I’m glad there’s no confusion about that. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/24 "2010-07-27T17:01:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > In both cases, we’re talking about tools that should be understood and respected, but in both cases they’re particularly dangerous tools, which is why kids below a certain age shouldn’t be using them, even under adult supervision. Unfortunately, in most places in the U.S., automobiles are a virtual necessity for holding a job, dating, and other things that should be part of the normal teenager’s life. There are no parallel circumstances where use of firearms is similarly necessary. So it would seem to me that the minimum age for use of firearms should be at least as high as the minimum age for driving - and it would make sense for it to be higher. Coming from a family where both of my parents were farm kids, I’ll just note that plenty of young teens or pre-teens end up driving tractors and the like; while not dangerous in that they typically do not encounter much traffic (but can, if driven down the road to a field nearby), they also tended to be much more likely to injure or kill the driver. Farm kids, kids in wilder areas, and kids in situations where legal hunting and fishing can provide much-needed food for the family, may also need or at least find it **extremely** helpful to be able to use a firearm. It is legal in many areas to hunt as a preteen. I grew up in Wisconsin, where now 10 or 11-year-olds may hunt if within arms-length and under direct supervision of a “mentor” age 18+ (and with various other requirements). 12 and 13-year-olds have to just be accompanied by an adult, not within arms-length, and 14 and up no longer have to be with an adult to hunt. Frankly, this ability is considered **normal** among most people who do hunting, though most go not alone but in small groups for the assistance with tracking/dragging out the dressed animal that you might need. Furthermore, you may not have a gun in your home, but your kid’s new friend may. That kid’s parents might be responsible gun owners, or might not. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/25 "2010-07-27T17:08:41Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Didn’t answer the poll. > > I plan on owning firearms and if I ever have children I plan to teach them proper gun safety at an early age. > > But I dislike it when people try to refer to guns as tools. I mean, they are tools, sure, but when you call them that you’re trying to play word games. Guns are weapons and I have no reservations about that. Where I grew up a shotgun was a tool, often kept in the shed with other large tools, and used to rid the farm of creatures which threated the well-being and livelyhood of the farmer and his family. You may also call a monkey wrench a weapon if it’s used to hit someone over the head, but generally it is called a _tool._ I understand your objection if you believe that the use of guns is always harmful, but I think in the case of guns as tools it is not disengenous to refer to them as such if the intended function is as an adjunct of survival and not for harming people. I think I’ve answered a similar OP here before by saying that all four of us have gun safety training and none of us cares to exercise it. In our cultural upbringng it was a preservative and common-sense thing to do. Certainly no underlying sinister motive. Guns are similar to beverage alcohol - in the hands of an informed user they seem to have a place in our society. Misused they wreak havoc. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/26 "2010-07-27T17:12:06Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > > [@GusNSpot](#): > > > > IMO, anyone can teach their children about anything at any age they chose. > > Those weren’t the OP’s kids. Which is why I fail to see the need for him to be there as a resource. > > > [@](#): > > > > I really hate to see little kids throw away their arm pitching baseball at such a young age, or kids playing full contact football and dying in games or practice & on & on & on. But I don’t think that I should try to people to stop because I think I know better or get laws passed to stop what I don’t like… Raise you kids anyway you want. > > Actually, it’s a settled point that kids aren’t just property, and no, you can’t raise them any way you want. Parents are accorded a great deal of latitude in raising their children, but they don’t have a right to unduly risk their lives or health, nor do they have a right to deny them a basic education. > > > [@](#): > > > > It seems your way is to not do it or allow it or maybe you just misread what the poster was intending. > > Well yeah, we don’t allow kids to drive cars until they’re 16. My way, as is the way of the entire U.S. of A., is to not allow it. Yes indeed. I’m glad there’s no confusion about that. But we do allow kids to drive before 16. At 14 in some states you can get a motorcycle license. You can get a conditional driver’s license as well if you live in farm country. Finally, my son can drive anything I like on our property, or out in the desert in CA. Driving limitations only apply to licenses and use on public roads. This is why I have started teaching my son to drive when we are out in the country - as his parent I am confident in his maturity and readiness to learn. The shooting sports have long been part of a child’s education in America. There are shooting competitions geared towards minors. The Boy Scouts of America teaches shooting starting at age 11 (earlier if the boy earned the Arrow of Light as a Cub Scout). BB Guns (and putting ones eye out with that kid) are part of many a young kids arsenal, with eventual graduation to fully-automatic AirSoft weaponry. Start them early, teach them right, and when they are in a situation where they need to make their own firearms decisions they will hopefully remember some of your lessons. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/27 "2010-07-27T17:13:47Z")
I like \*\*MacTech’\*\*s approach to dealing with kids and guns. That’s similar, albeit higher tech, to the way I was taught. (We didn’t have internet or youtube back in the day.) Absolutely love the coconut demo. My dad did something like that for me, but he had me shoot a sheet of plywood with my .410 at close range. Even using 2.5 inch “low brass” shells, I blew a hole in the plywood as big as my head. Not sure how I’d deal with children spending much or any time in my house. Dunno that I’m willing to hide/unload my home defense weapons, and I can’t really hide the long guns…they live in a beautiful, handmade gun cabinet in my den. I guess I could use something to tie the door handles together, but the guns are still visible being the glass doors. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/28 "2010-07-27T17:16:31Z")
I voted for “keep them hidden”, but there wasn’t really an appropriate answer listed. The wife and I plan to have kids in a couple of years. When they’re old enough to handle a firearm, I’ll take them to a firing range and let them learn how to shoot (and, more importantly, how to safely handle a firearm if they must, and what to do if they find one). I won’t keep guns in the house, though. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/29 "2010-07-27T17:19:32Z")
I’d say the OP is doing it right. I started learning to drive and shoot when I was around 9-10. One of the best things my folks ever did for me. There was never any mystery about guns, and I was shown to properly handle them. Same with cars/tractors/motorcycles and such. When the time came to get my licence, I had already had pretty much time behind the wheel. Now I know this won’t work for every one, that’s one of the bonuses of living out in the country. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/30 "2010-07-27T17:30:20Z")
I’ve got a friend who teaches youth classes on gun safety at a rifle range. People ask him all the time why children need gun safety classes if there are no guns in the house. He always tells them that it’s not their kids they have to worry about, it’s other people’s kids. You may not have guns in your house, but that doesn’t mean your kid’s parents don’t have guns in their house. Willfully refusing to teach your children about guns is like willfully refusing to teach your children about downed power lines. What happens when your child finds a loaded gun and you haven’t taught him or her anything about gun safety? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/31 "2010-07-27T17:31:38Z")
Wait, what? I am my kid’s parents. Aren’t I? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/32 "2010-07-27T17:32:19Z")
I think a kid who has learned to respect and handle guns is going to have a much better outcome if he finds a stray gun than a kid who knows next to nothing about them. Education is a good thing. (I am not a gun owner and probably never will be. I do not oppose gun ownership, but I oppose irresponsible gun ownership.) ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/33 "2010-07-27T18:31:22Z")
Bear in mind that we live on a farm, when I was growing up, guns were just _there_, a normal part of life on a farm, I was taught to respect them, Dad and I would go shooting any time I asked to, by the time I was 10, Dad had already started letting me mow the lawn with our garden tractor, under supervision of course, by 11 or 12 I was doing it largely unsupervised, the tractor got me used to driving a four wheeled vehicle, I was driving one of our old trucks around the hay field when we had hay baling done even before I took drivers ed at 16, I was given responsibilities and did my best to live up to them Farm life is different than life in the city or suburbs, farm kids were given duties some may think of as more appropriate for teens and young adults S and L are also farm kids ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/34 "2010-07-27T19:04:57Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > > [@RTFirefly](#): > > > > In both cases, we’re talking about tools that should be understood and respected, but in both cases they’re particularly dangerous tools, which is why kids below a certain age shouldn’t be using them, even under adult supervision. Unfortunately, in most places in the U.S., automobiles are a virtual necessity for holding a job, dating, and other things that should be part of the normal teenager’s life. There are no parallel circumstances where use of firearms is similarly necessary. So it would seem to me that the minimum age for use of firearms should be at least as high as the minimum age for driving - and it would make sense for it to be higher. > > Coming from a family where both of my parents were farm kids, I’ll just note that plenty of young teens or pre-teens end up driving tractors and the like; while not dangerous in that they typically do not encounter much traffic (but can, if driven down the road to a field nearby), they also tended to be much more likely to injure or kill the driver. > > Farm kids, kids in wilder areas, and kids in situations where legal hunting and fishing can provide much-needed food for the family, may also need or at least find it **extremely** helpful to be able to use a firearm. > > It is legal in many areas to hunt as a preteen. I grew up in Wisconsin, where now 10 or 11-year-olds may hunt if within arms-length and under direct supervision of a “mentor” age 18+ (and with various other requirements). 12 and 13-year-olds have to just be accompanied by an adult, not within arms-length, and 14 and up no longer have to be with an adult to hunt. Frankly, this ability is considered **normal** among most people who do hunting, though most go not alone but in small groups for the assistance with tracking/dragging out the dressed animal that you might need. There’s a difference between what is considered normal, and what makes sense, given our standards for similarly risky activities. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, you may not have a gun in your home, but your kid’s new friend may. That kid’s parents might be responsible gun owners, or might not. But quite frankly, it’s a longshot. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/35 "2010-07-27T19:15:33Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > But we do allow kids to drive before 16. At 14 in some states you can get a motorcycle license. You can get a conditional driver’s license as well if you live in farm country. OK, so 14. This doesn’t exactly undermine the point, so much as nibble around the edges. > [@](#): > > Finally, my son can drive anything I like on our property, or out in the desert in CA. Driving limitations only apply to licenses and use on public roads. I’m aware of that, but what percentage of American kids live somewhere where they can drive more than 100 feet without going onto a public road or the neighbor’s yard? When I was growing up, I frequently visited my cousins, who lived on a cattle ranch near Dexter, KS. They were driving pickups and tractors at 12. But even 40 years ago, they were the exception not just nationally, but even in Kansas. > [@](#): > > The shooting sports have long been part of a child’s education in America. There are shooting competitions geared towards minors. The Boy Scouts of America teaches shooting starting at age 11 (earlier if the boy earned the Arrow of Light as a Cub Scout). BB Guns (and putting ones eye out with that kid) are part of many a young kids arsenal, with eventual graduation to fully-automatic AirSoft weaponry. > > Start them early, teach them right, and when they are in a situation where they need to make their own firearms decisions they will hopefully remember some of your lessons. That’s nice and all, but my point is that (a) you could say the same thing about driving, (b) the requirements (age and otherwise) for driving are more stringent, and (c) less stringent requirements for driving could at least be justified by the inability to get anywhere these days in most of America without wheels. Your post addresses none of this. ---
**Author:** ![Cowgirl\_Jules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@Cowgirl\_Jules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowgirl_Jules)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/36 "2010-07-27T19:28:50Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Furthermore, you may not have a gun in your home, but your kid’s new friend may. That kid’s parents might be responsible gun owners, or might not. > > But quite frankly, it’s a longshot. Exactly. Since I don’t know what kind of weird situations my kids may run into at other people’s houses, longshot or not, doesn’t it make sense to teach the kids how to handle themselves safely if they come across a gun? That’s the backbone of the Eddie Eagle program. If they’ve never had any training at all, they’re more likely to pick up a gun they come across out of curiosity and get hurt or hurt someone else. If they’re even somewhat familiar with one, they can react appropriately. Our kids definitely know not to mess with guns without permission, especially at a non-family member’s house. As we are also a shooting household, we include our children in that activity at age-appropriate levels, but I think it’s a good thing for all kids to have a basic understanding. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/37 "2010-07-27T19:46:29Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Furthermore, you may not have a gun in your home, but your kid’s new friend may. That kid’s parents might be responsible gun owners, or might not. > > But quite frankly, it’s a longshot. Is it? One third of all American citizens own a gun. There are 640 million guns in the world, and 8 million new guns manufactured each year. Is it really so unlikely that your child will make friends will someone whose parents own a gun? ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/38 "2010-07-27T20:03:42Z")
I don’t quite understand the difference between the 3rd and 4th options. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/39 "2010-07-27T20:04:43Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I understand your objection if you believe that the use of guns is always harmful. Nope, I’m OK with firearms and, like I said, I plan on owning them. But whether used to put down animals or to defend yourself, I think it’s a weapon. Like I said, I think it is a tool, but it’s not _just_ a tool or _simply_ a tool or whatever people like to call it to avoid calling it a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159/40 "2010-07-27T20:34:40Z")
Growing up my dad had a semi automatic ruger mini. He showed us how it worked, let us hold it, told us not to touch it… When my parents weren’t home, every single friend I brought over got to play with the gun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-and-firearm-safety-your-thoughts/548159.md?page=3)