# Kids are savages. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077 "2004-12-16T02:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EmeraldGrue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dc4da7/32.png) [@EmeraldGrue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmeraldGrue)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/1 "2004-12-16T02:41:00Z")
…There’s not much more I can say about [this](http://tinyurl.com/5o84l). _Savages._ Why? > [@The Toronto Star](#): > > McLennan had laughed at Penasse after he vomited from too much alcohol. > > The boy was sexually assaulted, punched, kicked and stoned with rocks, some as heavy as 12.7 kilograms, during the attack that lasted three hours, according to the agreed statement of facts read into the record yesterday by crown prosecutor Richard Schwarzl. > > A pathologist determined McLennan died from blunt force head trauma but that the young man, who was known to friends as a “gentle giant” could have died from the kicks to his head or the stoning alone. ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/2 "2004-12-16T03:48:45Z")
Despite the opinions of some philosophers (Rousseau?) and popular authors (Children are from Heaven), I think it’s accurate to say that children are born heathens and savages, and must be gently, steadily, deliberately shaped and trained to be considerate, thoughtful, and “socialized”. I homeschool my children, so I have a great deal of contact with them during the day, every day. I am adamant that they show respect to everyone they must deal with (with sane limits - they don’t have to be polite to someone who wants to hurt them) - to apologise for hurts deliberate and incidental - and to help make hurts better when they cause them. I still catch them being cruel. I can only imagine how it gets worse in larger, less supervised groups. Of course, groups of people, children or adults, have a certain kind of insanity built in. People in groups seem more likely to commit acts that singly, they would not consider. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/3 "2004-12-16T04:08:42Z")
This entire generation should be eliminated as too far gone. We’ll do better with our grandkids. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/4 "2004-12-16T05:48:49Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > This entire generation should be eliminated as too far gone. We’ll do better with our grandkids. I sorta resent this. But yes, many in my generation are irredemable fuckwad asstwitters. That said, I misread the subject of the OP as “kids are sausages” and yet, still clicked… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/5 "2004-12-16T05:52:11Z")
It’s an awful situation. I can’t help be fascinated, though, that someone apparently took the time to actually weight the rock used in the assault. I can think of no other explanation for the article’s description of the rocks as being “as heavy as 12.7 kilograms.” ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/6 "2004-12-16T06:08:24Z")
Please, please don’t paint all of us teenagers with the same brush. Please. Am I annoying? Sure. Do I need a better work ethic? Definitely. Am I capable of murder? Would I commit murder, even if I was? Fuck no. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/7 "2004-12-16T06:16:09Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s an awful situation. > > I can’t help be fascinated, though, that someone apparently took the time to actually weight the rock used in the assault. I can think of no other explanation for the article’s description of the rocks as being “as heavy as 12.7 kilograms.” They are going to really need that weight as part of the trial. The characteristics of the murder weapon are critical. The prosecution can’t just turn to the jury and say: “These boys killed him with a big rock. I am not sure how big, but let me tell you it pretty large.” ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/8 "2004-12-16T07:51:20Z")
I believe the children are our future. That’s why we must destroy them now before they destroy us first. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/9 "2004-12-16T08:09:39Z")
What’s the big deal? Adults of all creeds, colors, nationalities, sizes, ages, and social statuses do awful, horrible, horrifyingly nasty things to other adults and children on a much more regular basis. THis pales in comparison, honestly. Sam ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/10 "2004-12-16T08:56:43Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > I believe the children are our future. > > That’s why we must destroy them now before they destroy us first. Sadly, there are way too many parents already working on ruining them before we ever hear about them. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/11 "2004-12-16T09:38:27Z")
Yes, children will behave as evil little satan-spawn unless those whose hormone-frenzied erratic copulation take a proactive role an shepherding the little buggers. Believe it or not, I love my daughter. I won’t take any shit from her, either, and she knows it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/12 "2004-12-16T10:33:58Z")
Alternatively, it could have been a metricization of an english measure. You get weird results that way. Someone says “Eh, around 25 pounds.” and you get someone translating it exactly into metric. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/13 "2004-12-16T12:42:55Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > This entire generation should be eliminated as too far gone. We’ll do better with our grandkids. Amen! Just think back to generations past, when no one was bullied and physically abused, and the children all walked around holding hands and writing poetry expressing their platonic affection for one another. IMHO, the only difference is that nowadays the little bastards are more likely to be prosecuted, instead of getting a wink and a “kids will be kids.” ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/14 "2004-12-16T12:48:34Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Alternatively, it could have been a metricization of an english measure. You get weird results that way. Someone says “Eh, around 25 pounds.” and you get someone translating it exactly into metric. Actually about 28 pounds - get it…two stone. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/15 "2004-12-16T12:52:13Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > This entire generation should be eliminated as too far gone. We’ll do better with our grandkids. That’s all crap. This is just a matter of improved communications making things look like there’s a spike. You think we were any better? Or the generations before us? It is to laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/16 "2004-12-16T12:58:20Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > This entire generation should be eliminated as too far gone. We’ll do better with our grandkids. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, let’s make sure the present generation procreates first, \*before \* eliminating them. That way we’ll have grandkids to do better with. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/17 "2004-12-16T12:59:27Z")
It usually works out. Kids are savage, but also stupid. If they weren’t so stupid, we’d have no hope of reining in the brutishness and cruelty of the average 8-12-year-old. When kids grow up, they (usually) develop enough of a conscience to prevent them from destroying society, plus they are (usually) smart enough to keep the next generation of shallow little thugs under control. And the circle of life continues. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/18 "2004-12-16T13:30:43Z")
Nothing new under the sun. > [@](#): > > The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. > > Attributed to Socrates by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277 (1953). > [@](#): > > I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words… When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint > > (Hesiod, 8th century BC) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/19 "2004-12-16T14:08:59Z")
> [@Chotii](#): > > Despite the opinions of some philosophers (Rousseau?) and popular authors (Children are from Heaven), I think it’s accurate to say that children are born heathens and savages, and must be gently, steadily, deliberately shaped and trained to be considerate, thoughtful, and “socialized”. I agree with you and M. Rousseau—except that I am _still_ a heathen and quite happy about it. But the savage part—I was beaten up by my wee schoolmates on a pretty regular basis. All that happened was a scolding or a “kids will be kids!” If my coworkers ganged up on me and held me down while my boss punched me in the stomach every morning, I’d have a dandy lawsuit on my hands. _Kids_. Hated 'em when I _was_ one and don’t feel much different now. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/20 "2004-12-16T14:41:59Z")
I understand what those of you in the “they’re no worse than we were” camp are saying, but _we_ never walked around with our asses hanging out of our pants. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077.md?page=2)