# Kids are savages. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077 "2004-12-16T02:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/21 "2004-12-16T15:02:47Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > I understand what those of you in the “they’re no worse than we were” camp are saying, but _we_ never walked around with our asses hanging out of our pants. No, but you probably have the dubious distinction of belonging to a generation that wore polyester, or bell-bottom pants, or love-beads, or butterfly collared cowboy shirts with ruffly sleeves, or white leather accessories like shoes and belts. Kinds of things that makes my generation gag. Sam ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/22 "2004-12-16T15:05:26Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > This entire generation should be eliminated as too far gone. We’ll do better with our grandkids. That’s what we should have done with the Baby Boomers. I recall meeting an “elderly” couple (mind you, this was thirty years ago, so they were probably about my own age now!) with a couple of very young children. They weren’t their grandchildren, as most people would have assumed, the couple just figured that their first set of kids hadn’t turned out real well, so they decided to start over… ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/23 "2004-12-16T15:05:31Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > No, but you probably have the dubious distinction of belonging to a generation that wore polyester, or bell-bottom pants, or love-beads, or butterfly collared cowboy shirts with ruffly sleeves, or white leather accessories like shoes and belts. Kinds of things that makes my generation gag. > > Sam Hey it made us gag, too, but _there was nothing else in the stores to buy!_ ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/24 "2004-12-16T15:09:56Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > No, but you probably have the dubious distinction of belonging to a generation that wore polyester, or bell-bottom pants, or love-beads, or butterfly collared cowboy shirts with ruffly sleeves, or white leather accessories like shoes and belts. Kinds of things that makes my generation gag. > > Sam Or, if it was the 80s, girls with very large hair made from 10 pounds of hairspray a day and both genders that agreed to wear Day-Glo colors. ---
**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/25 "2004-12-16T16:00:58Z")
I don’t know, all that ugly shit comes back as “retro” so I’m not sure all the young punks are gagging over bell bottoms. You can call them flares or some other shit, but they’re still pants with lots of fabric at the bottom. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/26 "2004-12-16T18:00:24Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > No, but you probably have the dubious distinction of belonging to a generation that wore polyester, or bell-bottom pants, or love-beads, or butterfly collared cowboy shirts with ruffly sleeves, or white leather accessories like shoes and belts. Kinds of things that makes my generation gag. > > Sam Actually it was dumb crap like hospital scrubs and parachute pants. And the gigantic hair. I was one of the un-cool kids who wore jeans and regular shirts, and my hair has never more than two inches long. Big-time dork points there. ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/27 "2004-12-16T18:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Why can’t they be like we were, > Perfect in every way? > What’s the matter with kids today? Every generation has thought their children are horrible monsters scince the beginning of time. It never fails to amuse me when I hear people bitch about the younger generation and their music, their clothes, their attitudes. My mom was that way about me. Her father was the same way with her. I’m sure I’ll have plenty to complain about when my kids are teenagers. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/28 "2004-12-16T20:20:10Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it’s accurate to say that children are born heathens and savages, and must be gently, steadily, deliberately shaped and trained to be considerate, thoughtful, and “socialized”. I disagree with this. Children are undoubtedly savages, that is; they are completely innocent. This means they are neither good nor evil, but rather ignorant of both. They can commit vicious cruetlies and awesome kindnesses in the same minute with no thought. Its true they are unsocialized, but this means a lack of sef-control, not an inherently evil personality. ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/29 "2004-12-16T20:30:26Z")
But what age ‘children’ are you talking about? I’m talking about _young_ children. The OP however was surely talking about older children (I didn’t read the article in question because I didn’t feel like registering for yet another online newspaper). But to be able to pick up stones weighing 28 lbs, these kids must have been _fairly_ big kids. Older children who have not been properly socialised may well be both cruel and kind in the same minute, but it’s not reasonable to call them ‘innocent’. I imagine those kids knew perfectly well what they were doing. You can’t bash somebody’s head with great big rocks and not know what you’re doing. I might buy your ‘lack of self control’ argument, but I know that small children, 3 and 4 years old, can learn to begin to control themselves. I require it of my children (now 7 and 5), and so they are bewildered when they clash with kids their age or older who have not learned any self-control, who lash out, kick, hit, claw, throw screaming temper tantrums… If older children exhibit no self-control, I’ve a good idea it’s because nobody’s demanded it of them. And the older they get, the more likely I am to think it may well be an evil personality at work. It certainly isn’t “innocence”. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/30 "2004-12-16T21:07:18Z")
For those who want to read the whole story, but are faced with a registration page, click the link on [this](http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=Penasse+The+boy+was+sexually+assaulted%2C+punched%2C+kicked+and+stoned+with+rocks&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t) search page. ---
**Author:** ![EmeraldGrue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dc4da7/32.png) [@EmeraldGrue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmeraldGrue)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/31 "2004-12-16T21:25:28Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > I disagree with this. Children are undoubtedly savages, that is; they are completely innocent. This means they are neither good nor evil, but rather ignorant of both. They can commit vicious cruetlies and awesome kindnesses in the same minute with no thought. Its true they are unsocialized, but this means a lack of sef-control, not an inherently evil personality. I’m with **Chotii** : this definitely isn’t innocence. The kids, by the way, were sixteen when it happened. (Sorry; I didn’t know the paper required registration.) But I thought it was self-evident that younger children are much quicker to quarrel and act selfishly than to be altruistic, patient and tolerant, and people in general (especially teens like those) can lose their inhibitions and revert to that. Is that inherent evil? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/32 "2004-12-16T23:21:31Z")
> [@Genghis Bob](#): > > At the risk of pointing out the obvious, let’s make sure the present generation procreates first, \*before \* eliminating them. That way we’ll have grandkids to do better with. Geez, I thought _nobody_ was gonna get the joke. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/33 "2004-12-16T23:37:19Z")
You could argue that these were kids – the victim and two of his attackers were 16 – but the ringleader, the one who was insulted by the victim laughing at him and then sexually assaulted him repeatedly and made sure he got beaten to death, was a 22-year-old _adult_. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/34 "2004-12-16T23:48:05Z")
I have cited this source twice now on the SDMB, and have not mentioned it anywhere else in about 5 years. Interesting. On to my point > [@PBS Documentary "Memories of a Hitler Youth"](#): > > Children are like empty vessels. You can fill them with good, you can fill them with hate ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/35 "2004-12-17T00:22:22Z")
How do you fucking sustain that much anger for that long? On a “friend”? Drunken rages usually rise and fall rapidly. There has to be psychological dynamics beyond intoxication. Look, pussy, if you can’t handle 3 (weak Canadian) beers and 3 (what, strawberry-banana jell-o) shooters, expect to be fucking ridiculed. At least now there’s hope these worse-than-nazi retards will know what it’s like to be the (sexually) assaulted…with no recourse…when they ultimately reach their new homes. To anyone in any prison to which these 3 might go: Please ass-rape and torture these fucktards at least on a daily basis…more frequently as conditions allow! ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/36 "2004-12-17T00:56:04Z")
> [@High Cheese](#): > > At least now there’s hope these worse-than-nazi retards will know what it’s like to be the (sexually) assaulted…with no recourse…when they ultimately reach their new homes. > > To anyone in any prison to which these 3 might go: Please ass-rape and torture these fucktards at least on a daily basis…more frequently as conditions allow! I hope you’re not a parent, becuase I agree with the sentiments quoted below, and based on your quoted commnents above, it shows what you’d fill the vessels with. :mad: > [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Originally Posted by **PBS Documentary "Memories of a Hitler Youth"** > Children are like empty vessels. You can fill them with good, you can fill them with hate ---
**Author:** ![phaishazamkhan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@phaishazamkhan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phaishazamkhan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/37 "2004-12-17T01:00:18Z")
Hah. Funny thing is that should anyone decide to intervene for the sake of kids because of permissive or oblivious parents [they get suspended](http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/12/16/handcuffed.child.ap/index.html) or arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/38 "2004-12-17T01:15:00Z")
Why don’t you start a thread of your own on that topic, \*\*phaishazamkhan \*\*? Then you could discuss it at length, without hijacking this topic. It is tangentally related in a way, but it should have it’s own thread so people can discuss it fully. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/39 "2004-12-17T01:37:03Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Why don’t you start a thread of your own on that topic, \*\*phaishazamkhan \*\*? Then you could discuss it at length, without hijacking this topic. It is tangentally related in a way, but it should have it’s own thread so people can discuss it fully. No, no. I think it’s ok to start the discussion right here. With quotes such as “I hope you’re not a parent”; this thread has obviously run its course of usefulness. I hope, in turn, you also are not a parent…of a precious child trampled to death by drunken, wreckless teens (or whatever the fuck their ages). [This might help in any event.](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=woosh) ---
**Author:** ![High\_Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8797f3/32.png) [@High\_Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Cheese)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077/40 "2004-12-17T01:42:42Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Amen! Just think back to generations past, when no one was bullied and physically abused, and the children all walked around holding hands and writing poetry expressing their platonic affection for one another. hhhhhhhhh. [:sighs longingly:](http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?CID=3D4C682873D1444C871AC0A16170DE0D&startat=http%3A//www.allposters.com/getPoster.asp%3FCID%3D3D4C682873D1444C871AC0A16170DE0D%26APNum%3D340494%26f%3DP%26FindID%3D0) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-are-savages/280077.md?page=3)