# Kids in the Restaurant: THAT was odd. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 21, 2005, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439 "2005-07-21T08:01:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/21 "2005-07-21T15:21:52Z")
No one is saying affection is a bad thing. My question is, why would it be so awful to go an hour without fawning over them? (I wish I could think of everything I want to say in one post. I have a habit of making a series of mini-points as they occur to me. Sorry. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/22 "2005-07-21T15:27:58Z")
> [@Licentious Ectomorph](#): > > No one is saying affection is a bad thing. My question is, why would it be so awful to go an hour without fawning over them? > > (I wish I could think of everything I want to say in one post. I have a habit of making a series of mini-points as they occur to me. Sorry. 🙂 ) I would hardly consider the steps taken by the parents in the OP “fawning”. Parents have two options in most situations: preemption and punishment. Especially in situations that are foreign to the kids, and especially in such foreign situations where other people might be effected by bad behavior, preemption is the logical first tactic. If that fails, punishment comes into play. ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/23 "2005-07-21T15:49:12Z")
> [@Licentious Ectomorph](#): > > What’s wrong with it is it’s spoiling them rotten. Sure, they were nice and quiet _while they were on Mommy’s and Daddy’s laps._ I suspect if Mommy and Daddy had refused, it would have been a very different scene. They are being taught that adults’ lives and activities, and the universe as a whole, are all about _them_. Grownups are not entitled to have so much as a meal without paying attention to them. When they’re too old for lap sitting, I predict it’s going to get _really_ ugly. Into a [Skinner Box](http://www.sntp.net/behaviorism/skinner_box.jpg) with you, vile attention-sucking, affection seeking infants! This will teach you! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/24 "2005-07-21T15:50:51Z")
> [@Licentious Ectomorph](#): > > The very fist thing infants learn is how to get what they want by screaming and crying. Surely you don’t think they’re incapable of deliberately manipulating their parents by pitching a fit if they don’t get their way. Granted, the thought process isn’t sophisticated - but they know it works. Certainly by the age of two it’s not a huge mental feat. Not according to most pediatrician and childcare experts! Most agree it’s impossible to spoil an infant, especially a newborn, by paying too much attention to them. “Pitching a fit?” What the hell are they supposed to do, say, “Hey Mom, my diaper’s full of shit!!!” ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/25 "2005-07-21T15:51:53Z")
These were small children. While its true that the two year old is capable of manipulative behavior, the infant certainly is not. But I think the key to manipulative behavior is that someone has to be manipulated. If he parent and the child are pleased with what’s happening, there is no manipulation. And while it’s possible that the children would have thrown fits had they been moved into their own seats, it really isn’t something any of us can say for certain. And given the way the family was described, I think it would probably be more prudent to suppose that this is a family that is comfortable with a bit more physical affection than some people on this board would be. Which is fine. Everyone has their own “comfort zones” and a right to stay within them. Its understandable that someone might see this as a little odd, or maybe needy (I’d also like to point out that children in general, but infants and two year olds in particular, are basically just need personified) but its really no different that that friend we all have who hugs people too much. Some folks are just touchy, and touchy people are touchy with their kids. It isn’t child abuse or anything, for goodness sake! I think its really bad logic to think that because Mom and Dad are cuddly with their kiddos, that the kids are spoiled. I have two children (5 and 2) and I am very sweet with them. Well, with my 5 year old. My two year old daughter doesn’t like it, and prefers to sit alone. But my son likes to sit beside me and is quite affectionate. With me. But his father isn’t that way, and when they are together its all “guy stuff”. (This holds true for everyone else he knows) My son often sat in my lap in restaurants; he’s always been a bit shy in crowds, and so prefered it, and I didn’t mind. When he got bigger, and became too large for this, I just told him, and that was the end of it. No fits, no fuss. Above all, I think; mind your own business. If the kids weren’t a bother, be happy and move on. Posting this stuff just makes you look like an old grouch. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/26 "2005-07-21T15:54:16Z")
> [@miss elizabeth](#): > > Above all, I think; mind your own business. If the kids weren’t a bother, be happy and move on. Posting this stuff just makes you look like an old grouch. I agree, it really does. The kids aren’t yours, aren’t related to you, didn’t bother you, and yet you still find something to complain about. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/27 "2005-07-21T15:59:46Z")
> [@CBCD](#): > > Into a [Skinner Box](http://www.sntp.net/behaviorism/skinner_box.jpg) with you, vile attention-sucking, affection seeking infants! This will teach you! [Snopes on the Skinner Box.](http://www.snopes.com/science/skinner.asp) So basically it was a combination incubator and crib. Sounds pretty nice, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/28 "2005-07-21T16:08:10Z")
> [@CBCD](#): > > Into a [Skinner Box](http://www.sntp.net/behaviorism/skinner_box.jpg) with you, vile attention-sucking, affection seeking infants! This will teach you! Now you’re talkin’! I kid, I kid. 😃 With regard to “pitching a fit,” I really wasn’t talking about infants, but rather older children who throw a tantrum if Mommy and Daddy dare to look away from them for a moment. They most certainly do exist. It seems to me (and of course I realize that those of you who have children and/or have researched the subject know better than I) that they must have been taught this from an early age. Anyway, I’m mostly just playing devil’s advocate here. I freely admit I spoil my cats rotten, and I know for a fact that **Anaamika** would find that weird. To each his own, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/29 "2005-07-21T16:11:41Z")
You know for someone who was being taken to dinner by his parents, you sure are condensending towards children. ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/30 "2005-07-21T16:11:59Z")
Sigh. Here we go. I didn’t complain about the kids. They behaved themselves fine. They were fine before they got put into their parents lap. It’s not about the kids. It struck me as odd that Mom and Dad would eat with two squirming (and yes, they sqirmed…quite a lot) kids in their laps. I’ve never seen anyone do this. Thank you for all the polite, chastising responses. My OP was obviously overboard and naive. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/31 "2005-07-21T16:18:10Z")
> [@Licentious Ectomorph](#): > > Anyway, I’m mostly just playing devil’s advocate here. I freely admit I spoil my cats rotten, and I know for a fact that **Anaamika** would find that weird. To each his own, I guess. Uh…when have I ever said that? I freely admit I hate _cats_. But, I completely understand spoiling beloved _pets_, and I spoiled my baby bird rotten. Please point out to me where I said “spoiling your cats rotten is weird”. Exact words, please. ---
**Author:** ![Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@Licentious\_Ectomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Licentious_Ectomorph)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/32 "2005-07-21T16:28:36Z")
I didn’t mean those were your exact words. I merely extrapolated that from the knowledge that you hate cats. I was just trying to make light, not be contentious. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/33 "2005-07-21T16:32:00Z")
> [@Licentious Ectomorph](#): > > I didn’t mean those were your exact words. I merely extrapolated that from the knowledge that you hate cats. I was just trying to make light, not be contentious. Okey-dokey. I should also point out that while I hate cats in general, there have been a few kitties who have charmed their way into my heart. 🙂 Plus, little beloved pets deserve to be spoiled. Like I said, my Kyoko was spoiled rotten. The vet even said “She’s a pudge” and I had to cut down on her nut intake. And she ws only a few grams! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/34 "2005-07-21T16:35:49Z")
Maybe I just have too creative a mind, but when I see behavior that gives me pause, I go to an entirely different place than the people in this thread have. Instead of judging these people or their parenting choices, or assuming you know this is needy, spoiling, overly indulgent or inappropriate maybe take a different tack. I stop and think, “Can I imagine a circumstance that would cause this behaviour to be appropriate?” Yes, yes I can. How do you know that this small family doesn’t live next door to someone who had a child snatched, like last week? How do you know that the children haven’t recently survived some sort of trauma that makes this attention entirely appropriate? Or should the family being wearing a sign explaining same to avoid your judgements? It reminds me of a thread, some time ago now, parents raging on because their children had been excluded from some invitation or event and they were miffed. I remember thinking as I read that thread that I could think up plenty of reasons why it would be appropriate to exclude your children from any event. Perhaps your host is suspecting that his neighbour may be a pervert, perhaps he’s always had a bad vibe about cousin Dave around toddlers. My point is just because you are not offered an explanation doesn’t mean there isn’t a good one. I guess it’s just me, if my children were excluded, by someone whom I count a friend, I am going to assume they have a good reason even if it’s not something they can share with me. After all, I may only have suspicions of cousin Dave, inappropriate to voice without confirmation, but I would definitely specifically exclude toddlers from events knowing he’d be there. Wouldn’t you want your friends to choose the safety of your children over your delicate sensitivities? I’m just saying, maybe we should use our creative powers a little more. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/35 "2005-07-21T16:38:28Z")
**elbows** , that is a darn good idea, particularly the bit about being worried about some neighbor having the wrong feelings around kids. \*That \* particular thought have never occured to me. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/36 "2005-07-21T16:39:16Z")
> [@Hung Mung](#): > > It struck me as odd that Mom and Dad would eat with two squirming (and yes, they sqirmed…quite a lot) kids in their laps. I’ve never seen anyone do this. The squirming could be why they were in their laps in the first place. Maybe the parents know how their kids will react if allowed to sit apart and this is their way of keeping them quiet. Kind of a pre-emptive thing. You’re asking why they would have them on their laps if they are behaving, but maybe the reason they are behaving is because they are on their laps. Kids are not likely to scream or throw food if their parent is 2 inches away from their face. Maybe they had spent the day apart and were just enjoying some cuddle time with their kids. Who knows? The kids were happy and everyone got to eat in peace. No worries. Kids aren’t able to sit and cuddle like that for very long. I do it with my son all the time, whenever he wants. It is a very contented feeling to sit and hold a little child and maybe they are just enjoying that time with their family. Good for them! ---
**Author:** ![yellowval](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/919ad9/32.png) [@yellowval](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowval)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/37 "2005-07-21T16:59:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Not according to most pediatrician and childcare experts! Most agree it’s impossible to spoil an infant, especially a newborn, by paying too much attention to them. > > “Pitching a fit?” What the hell are they supposed to do, say, “Hey Mom, my diaper’s full of shit!!!” I would have thought that it was impossible to spoil an infant too, until a friend of ours and his wife had a baby in December. Apparently not having anything better to do, mommy holds the baby almost constantly. On one occasion, another friend of mine was holding the baby and laid her down on a blanket on the floor so she could play and kick. The baby made a noise, so mommy had to pick her up. Now, if anyone—including the baby’s father and grandparents—tries to hold her and her mother is in the room, she screams bloody murder. I hate to see what’s going to happen when she gets older. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/38 "2005-07-21T18:12:04Z")
**Hung Mung** , your OP was not over the top; as someone who doesn’t have kids, you were asking about a behaviour you found odd (I would have found it odd, too). I think what you have run into in the responses in this thread is the “Cult of the Child” mentality North America is currently enduring. ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/39 "2005-07-21T18:12:23Z")
> [@yellowval](#): > > I would have thought that it was impossible to spoil an infant too, until a friend of ours and his wife had a baby in December. Apparently not having anything better to do, mommy holds the baby almost constantly. On one occasion, another friend of mine was holding the baby and laid her down on a blanket on the floor so she could play and kick. The baby made a noise, so mommy had to pick her up. Now, if anyone—including the baby’s father and grandparents—tries to hold her and her mother is in the room, she screams bloody murder. I hate to see what’s going to happen when she gets older. Eh, probably no big deal. My oldest son was extremely attached to me, probably because I was a single parent and the only constant in his life for the first couple of years. I was his security. Now, he’s quite happy to stay with anyone who’s nice to him. He seemed to get in his head very early that Mommy is always there for him, so when he went to daycare after a few years of staying home with me, he knew that Mommy would come back for him. No fuss at all. I don’t quite get the part about “Apparently not having anything better to do, mommy holds the baby almost constantly.” What is better to do than cuddling, loving and raising a child? When one has a newborn, I can’t imagine what is “better to do” than nurturing that baby. Dishes? Laundry? Running for political office? They aren’t babies forever, and I would think that most parents would cherish that time. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439/40 "2005-07-21T18:26:30Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > **Hung Mung** , your OP was not over the top; as someone who doesn’t have kids, you were asking about a behaviour you found odd (I would have found it odd, too). I think what you have run into in the responses in this thread is the “Cult of the Child” mentality North America is currently enduring. I re-read all the posts in this thread, and I honestly don’t see the “Cult of the Child” mentality you refer to. If “Cult of the Child” means “whatever works”, then perhaps. I see recognition on the part of some parents of a workable strategy used by other parents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kids-in-the-restaurant-that-was-odd/313439.md?page=3)