# Kill Bill Vol. 2 -- disappointments & quibbles (unboxed spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207 "2004-08-10T15:44:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/21 "2004-08-11T11:30:53Z")
> [@Emperor Penguin](#): > > The second was the whole build up with the Brides name. It was blanked out in the first film and parts of the second. I was expecting a revelation when her name was finally revelled. Instead, I was left thinking “Oh. Okay then. Huh?” Yeah, the name thing seemed pretty pointless to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/22 "2004-08-11T13:45:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The only thing I can think is that he assumed that any student brought to him by Bill would have more honor than to resort to poison like that. Wether this is supposed to tell us more about Elle or Bill, I cannot say. I’m with you here - Pei Mei wouldn’t have thought Elle would try to kill him in such a cowardly way, instead of besting him in battle. He didn’t take into account that she might have wanted him dead even more than she wanted to beat him. ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/23 "2004-08-11T13:56:34Z")
Here’s a thing that didn’t really disappoint me, I just found it interesting: at the end of Volume I, I was all about The Bride. (O-Ren was awesome too, but it was The Bride’s show from beginning to end.) At the end of Volume II, The Bride has her revenge and that’s nice and everything, but I was totally more interested in Elle Driver. I just love the bitch. She had me at “gargantuan.” So it kinda bugged me that I kept waiting for blind Elle to come back at the end, not because there was the remotest chance of that happening, but because I wanted to see her again! ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/24 "2004-08-11T14:30:14Z")
Watched V2 DVD last night - really really liked it. I tend to look at QT films this way: He loves detail and complexity and referencing earlier films _when it suits his purpose_ - when it doesn’t he doesn’t sweat the small stuff. Hence, I don’t try to read to much into the gaps - I just let the film wash over me. Having said that, I didn’t catch the “She’s buried in Barstow” vs. being set in El Paso reference - nice catch. Seems like a clear mistake - or jeez, did BKiddo walk a long way… Also got a bit of a wrong note with Elle being able to poison the Master. I got over it, but I did notice it. Otherall, loved both of them. Loved Carradine as Bill - loved the “I overreacted” line - sometimes the bad guy is just crazy, y’know? I thought the Superman Speech was classic QT along the lines of the Like a Virgin Speech from Resevoir Dogs and others. Brought it all together…and I was okay with the truth serum because it was a workable contrivance that enabled the conversation they had… All in all - a loving stew of a bunch of genres - I thought they were both great. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/25 "2004-08-11T14:44:47Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > So it kinda bugged me that I kept waiting for blind Elle to come back at the end, not because there was the remotest chance of that happening, but because I wanted to see her again! Wearing 2 eye patches, no doubt. 🙂 Was Pei Mei supposed to be the same Pai Mei in Bill’s story, set in 1-double-ought-3? Ie, he’s extremely long-lived? ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/26 "2004-08-11T14:50:24Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Was Pei Mei supposed to be the same Pai Mei in Bill’s story, set in 1-double-ought-3? Ie, he’s extremely long-lived? Well, he coudn’t have grown those eyebrows in the lifespan of an ordinary man! ---
**Author:** ![jfortun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2acd7d/32.png) [@jfortun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfortun)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/27 "2004-08-11T14:52:04Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > See the thing that really makes me crazy it that it could have been made so good, so easily. > > Why not only have 4 guests at the wedding? Let’s seee: she’s left her entire identity behind no more than say seven months previously, and the groom is marrying a woman heavily pregnant with another man’s child. I wouldn’t have batted an eye at the smallness of the wedding. And the ‘if any man here’ bit in wedding vows just screams to be the part where Bill and The Bride go talk on the porch - maybe throw in a shot of everyone inside standing there awkwardly when they leave, not sure how to proceed. Maybe the best man mouths an “I told you so,” at the groom, who look indignant, and a little afraid - you know, give the guy a little character. > > And then we could do the whole conversation, The Bride could tell Bill she’s made up her mind and walk back into the chapel, only to find that Bill was not reaching out to her but distracting her while her erstwhile comrades-in-arms sneak into the church and slit the throats of her entire wedding party. Cue music. > However, I have to give Tarantino credit for the most suspenseful sandwich-making ever. I don’t see why it’s such a big deal the the massacre happened at the rehearsal rather than the wedding. The conversation is much more natural at the rehearsal and besides, wouldn’t having it happen at the wedding be just a bit too Hollywood? ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/28 "2004-08-11T15:22:38Z")
> [@jfortun](#): > > I don’t see why it’s such a big deal the the massacre happened at the rehearsal rather than the wedding. The conversation is much more natural at the rehearsal and besides, wouldn’t having it happen at the wedding be just a bit too Hollywood? Too Hollywood? _Nothing_ is too Hollywood to happen in QT’s world - it’s like a trademark. The whole point was to embrace all the cliches of both cheesey chop-socky Eastern films and cheesey rootin-tootin Westerns. The lovelorn guy interrupting right before his lady-love marries the wrong man is a well worn Hollywood cliche (it’s in a Volkwagon ad, fercryinoutloud), which QT could have then punched holes in by having the guy go on to kill everybody when he doesn’t get his way. Plus, my ire is not really because the massacre happened a the rehearsal and not the wedding, it’s because it’s stupid that the first movie made a Big Deal of it - the cops talk about it, we see The Bride all bloodied up _in her wedding dress_, “they even shot the piano player,” cha cha cha, it’s so horrible, and then in Vol II, The Bride introduces the flashback sequence by saying it wasn’t what it appeared, everyone’s got it wrong, blah blah blah…and the big surprise is that it was a wedding rehearsal. So what? That doesn’t change the perception of the narrative in any significant way. It’s just not dramatically important enough to make a Big Thing out of it, but they do. And they had to add an explaination for why everyone was in their wedding clothes when they were found in the first movie, to set it up for the rehearsal to be mistaken for an actual wedding. It’s hastily tacked-on retroactive continuity. That is just plain bad writing. Plus, given that, honestly, I found Bill and The Bride’s conversation less than scintillating, I would have much rather seen Yuki’s Revenge, the plot line that got cut out in order to include the flashback, in which Go-go Yubari’s sister comes after The Bride. That would have tied into the first movie as well, continuing the theme set up with Vernita’s daughter, who presumably will also grow up to seek revenge against The Bride. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/29 "2004-08-11T19:03:41Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Having said that, I didn’t catch the “She’s buried in Barstow” vs. being set in El Paso reference - nice catch. Seems like a clear mistake - or jeez, did BKiddo walk a long way… I don’t think this is necessarily a mistake. Budd said he pawned it in El Paso, but not that he lives in El Paso. Bill doesn’t say how long it’s been since they’ve spoken, only that it’s been a long time, but he could have hocked it right after the wedding massacre. ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/30 "2004-08-11T20:23:03Z")
My huge, nagging question - if Elle killed Pai Mei, why doesn’t _anyone_ else seem to know about it? In the years that followed Elle’s training, all during the time she was a member of DVAS, why didn’t it ever come up? Why didn’t Bill know? It seems that at least he would have found out, and been pissed. ---
**Author:** ![gyt\_fx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@gyt\_fx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gyt_fx)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/31 "2004-08-11T20:39:36Z")
**Jenny** , I too was dissappointed when pointed out that in the original script, Yuki would avenge Go-Go’s death. Maybe QT plans on making a sequel? One way it could be done… is in the point of view of Yuki, much as Kill Bill was for the bride. Kill The Bride (Terrible name… i know; used as just an example) Another way could be in the point of view of Vernita’s daughter, in the form stated above; killing Beatrix and then final showdown with BB or something. And then theres the openness of Elle… she could come back to kill Beatrix… I dunno, I doubt QT will make a sequel… it would kind of spoil the whole thing… and seem too Hollywood: Cashing in on a good movie to make a sequel that wasn’t planned in the first place. But even if he does, I’d still watch it. QT’s movies are great 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/32 "2004-08-11T21:07:34Z")
> [@Freejooky](#): > > My huge, nagging question - if Elle killed Pai Mei, why doesn’t _anyone_ else seem to know about it? In the years that followed Elle’s training, all during the time she was a member of DVAS, why didn’t it ever come up? Why didn’t Bill know? It seems that at least he would have found out, and been pissed. I can understand nobody knowing about Pei Mei’s death if none of the Vipers have been to see him – he was a thousand-year-old mountaintop hermit. I don’t think he had email 😛 Even weirder – Daryl Hannah is ten years older than Uma Thurman (heh, spellcheck wants that to say Yuma Thursday), so the timeline is that Beatrix has been with the vipers longer than Elle? That would mean Elle trained last of all the vipers, even though she’s the oldest (Except for Budd), which just seems weird. When I first saw the movie, I had a disagrement with the people I went with about this – did Elle kill Pei Mei and just lie about having finished her training, or did she go back to poison him much later, after she’d been a DiVA for a while? ---
**Author:** ![Legolamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@Legolamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolamb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207/33 "2004-08-12T00:11:40Z")
> [@Jenny Haniver](#): > > Even weirder – Daryl Hannah is ten years older than Uma Thurman > …\ I think you’re trying to nitpick a little too much there Jenny (although your past posts have brought up a few good points that I never thought about before). Hollywood has never let actors’ actual ages get in the way of getting the right person for the part - lets face it, there’d be a lot less teen comedies around if the principal actors actually had to be teenagers. I think you just need to suspend disbelief and assume that Beatrix and Elle are a similar age, whether their real-life counterparts are or not. > [@gyt\_fx](#): > > I dunno, I doubt QT will make a sequel… it would kind of spoil the whole thing… and seem too Hollywood: Cashing in on a good movie to make a sequel that wasn’t planned in the first place. I read a couple of interviews around the release of Vol2 that suggested QT was toying with the idea of a sequel a long way down the line, the plot being Vernita’s daughter (Nikki?) seeking revenge on the Bride. He mentioned that whether or not he would eventually do it, he’d like to shoot a few scenes now so as to have the actors at their correct ages for flashback scenes. I doubt it’ll happen, but it’s a nice idea. I know I’d see it if it ever was released. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-vol-2-disappointments-quibbles-unboxed-spoilers/259207.md?page=1)