# Kill Bill: Volume 2 (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 17, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483 "2004-04-17T04:10:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/141 "2004-04-29T16:32:33Z")
> [@The Controvert](#): > > Yeah, but that’s not a very honorable or satisfying way to dispatch an enemy on the death list. It isn’t the Bride’s style to do car bombings or booby traps; I would think that is more Elle’s style. And she would have to stick around until the fire cooled to make sure he was dead. She didn’t make sure Elle died. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/142 "2004-04-29T20:32:59Z")
I also thought just bursting in the door was a pretty dumb idea…but the more I watched the first movie, the more I found myself thinking “You know, for someone with so much training as a professional killer and a major bad ass…she’s not very good.” Aside from the fight with the Crazy 88s, she gets tossed around quite a bit for stupid mistakes. Her fight with Vernetta was rather amateurish, especially knowing that her opponent was just as capable of dishing out punishment as well. She may have been a great fighter and a deadly assassine, but stealth and craftiness obviously weren’t her high points. Also, I was prepared for something to jump out of the suitcase and kill Bud, but I kept thinking to myself “No, Elle’s obviously got a thing for Bill, there’s no way she’d kill his brother.” So, even though it was expected, it was still a bit of a suprise (I like how the snake left B alone, though). Which brings up another little question: What was Elle’s relationship to Bill and Bud? I was talking to **Fionn** about it, and she kinda got the impression that she was their sister, but I got the feeling that she was a jilted lover of Bill’s (thus, her annimosity towards B). Anyone else get any ideas? Overall, I still loved the second movie. It’s completely different from the first, which makes me happy now that they put it into two parts, because as a single movie, it would have just seemed disjointed and awkward. The first vol. was driven by action, whereas the second one was more driven by characterization and dialogue. Put me down as another one who enjoys QT’s bouts of long winded dialogue in this film (he has overdone it before, but I found the Superman speach to be rather nice and not overblown at all). As for sequels, one of my coworkers keeps talking about how he’s read that QT tends to make a sequel where Vernetta’s daughter comes after the Bride for revenge years later. Any guess that Elle’s going to play her blind teacher? (I thought leaving her alive was a rather interesting touch, but the stepping on the eyeball was a bit much). Also, I really liked the sandwich making bit. As bad as a fucker as Bill was, it was really interesting to see that sweet side to him. All that fear the Bride had of letting him get ahold of her daughter, and he seems to have turned out to be one hell of a dad. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/143 "2004-04-29T20:49:51Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > All that fear the Bride had of letting him get ahold of her daughter, and he seems to have turned out to be one hell of a dad. :eek: You’re joking, right? If I end up marrying a woman who tries to raise my children the way Bill did, she’s getting a retraining order from me. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/144 "2004-04-29T20:51:15Z")
re_ **s** _training :smack: ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/145 "2004-04-29T21:16:58Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > :eek: > > You’re joking, right? If I end up marrying a woman who tries to raise my children the way Bill did, she’s getting a retraining order from me. How so? I mean, it’s not the best life, living with a bunch of assassines, but it seems as though after the whole shibang at the chapel, the gang split and Bill took a back seat to all the violence. When B showed up, they were playing happily in the back yard. He made her a sandwich and lovingly cut the crusts off the bread for her. He talked about how she killed her fish and never once showed a sign he got angry with her, and handled the whole situation calmly and honestly with her. He was honest with her about everything, didn’t sugar coat any of their dialogue, and seemed like a caring, nuturing father. Who knows what life with him was like outside of those few hours B was there, but from all the interraction I saw with his daughter, he was a pretty upstanding dad. Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/146 "2004-04-29T21:33:57Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > How so? I mean, it’s not the best life, living with a bunch of assassines, but it seems as though after the whole shibang at the chapel, the gang split and Bill took a back seat to all the violence. When B showed up, they were playing happily in the back yard. He made her a sandwich and lovingly cut the crusts off the bread for her. He talked about how she killed her fish and never once showed a sign he got angry with her, and handled the whole situation calmly and honestly with her. He was honest with her about everything, didn’t sugar coat any of their dialogue, and seemed like a caring, nuturing father. Who knows what life with him was like outside of those few hours B was there, but from all the interraction I saw with his daughter, he was a pretty upstanding dad. Did I miss something? The fact that he was proud of her killing the fish. The fact there were several gunshots directly outside of her bedroom that she didn’t even react to. The fact that he approved of desenitizing her to violence (some kung-fu assassin movie for a _bedtime story_?!?). No, Bill was most definitely not a typical father and role model that had the best interests of her childhood in mind. Seemed very much to me that he was raising her to be another assassin. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/147 "2004-04-29T21:49:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The fact that he was proud of her killing the fish. The fact there were several gunshots directly outside of her bedroom that she didn’t even react to. The fact that he approved of desenitizing her to violence (some kung-fu assassin movie for a _bedtime story_?!?). > > No, Bill was most definitely not a typical father and role model that had the best interests of her childhood in mind. Seemed very much to me that he was raising her to be another assassin. I never said he was a “typical” father…I’m just saying he didn’t seem that bad. And I didn’t get that he was proud of her killing the fish. He seemed very proud of her for being honest about it and not making up excuses for what she did. The gunshots…I think someone already discussed this, but for the most part, I just figured it was a choice by QT not to have a screaming crying kid appear in the middle of the big climax. Maybe she’s just a really heavy sleeper. Overall, what I was getting at was that, yes, it’s not the best scenario to raise a baby (being the daughter of an active crime lord and murderer), B’s fears seemed to be a lot worse than the reality of the situation, and I found that rather humorous. ---
**Author:** ![Beauty\_Personified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Beauty\_Personified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beauty_Personified)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/148 "2004-04-30T03:18:19Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > Also, I was prepared for something to jump out of the suitcase and kill Bud, but I kept thinking to myself “No, Elle’s obviously got a thing for Bill, there’s no way she’d kill his brother.” So, even though it was expected, it was still a bit of a suprise (I like how the snake left B alone, though). The snake Elle used to kill Budd with was a black mamba. The Bride’s assassin code-name was Black Mamba. Elle called Bill to tell him that Budd was dead. She didn’t say she killed Budd. I think one can assume that Elle set it up to look like The Bride killed Budd. Also, I know some people were disappointed that The Bride herself didn’t kill Budd. After all, she was going through all of the other assassins on her way to Bill. But, philosophically (or whatever), one could say that she actually did kill Budd, in that her “name-snake” did. 😛 As for The Bride not actually killing Elle, I see that as The Bride both dishonoring Elle (by not giving her a “warrior’s death”) and torturing her (by letting her live, but without her eyesight), in retaliation for what she supposedly did to Master Pai Mei. Crap. All this talking has me wanting to see _Volume 2_ for a third time. But it’s not here anymore. ☹ Well, at least _The Punisher_ is finally opening… Anyhoo… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/149 "2004-04-30T03:24:10Z")
> [@Beauty Personified](#): > > The snake Elle used to kill Budd with was a black mamba. The Bride’s assassin code-name was Black Mamba. Elle called Bill to tell him that Budd was dead. She didn’t say she killed Budd. I think one can assume that Elle set it up to look like The Bride killed Budd Yeah, I got all that. What I was getting at was that I figured that, Bill being Bill and a bad-ass like he is, Elle wouldn’t try to pull anything over on him. Sure, it seemed like a pretty wicked device, but I figured she’d have enough faith that Bill would see threw any kind of guise she could set up if she killed Budd, and therefore, wouldn’t take the chance. Elle had a lot more balls than I took her for having. And, as the parenthesis in my post noted, I liked the humor in that the black momba didn’t bite black momba. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/150 "2004-04-30T12:49:53Z")
That was indeed very stupid of Elle. That was her sort of method; certainly not the Bride’s. I did like it how Budd was, in his own way, the smartest of them all. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/151 "2004-04-30T12:58:52Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > As for sequels, one of my coworkers keeps talking about how he’s read that QT tends to make a sequel where Vernetta’s daughter comes after the Bride for revenge years later. Any guess that Elle’s going to play her blind teacher? (I thought leaving her alive was a rather interesting touch, but the stepping on the eyeball was a bit much). QT has said that Sofie Fatale, who survived Kill Bill v1, will play a role in training young Nikki as well. Interesting–she’ll be taught by a woman with no eyes and a woman with no arms. Personally, I’d love to see Elle Driver reappear in another movie, to cross paths with another newly-blinded character, Agent Sands, Johnny Depp’s antihero character from Once Upon A Time In Mexico. I wouldn’t count this out of the realm of possibility, since QT is good friends with the other movie’s director, Robert Rodriguez, and they already have collaborated on Four Rooms, Desperado, From Dusk Till Dawn, Kill Bill v2 (Rodriguez did the music), and the upcoming Sin City. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/152 "2004-04-30T13:07:41Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The fact that he was proud of her killing the fish. The fact there were several gunshots directly outside of her bedroom that she didn’t even react to. The fact that he approved of desenitizing her to violence (some kung-fu assassin movie for a _bedtime story_?!?). > > No, Bill was most definitely not a typical father and role model that had the best interests of her childhood in mind. Seemed very much to me that he was raising her to be another assassin. Eh, the way I look at it is that in the Tarantinoverse he’s about as good a father as you could expect. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/153 "2004-04-30T13:42:23Z")
Was Bill proud of her for killing the fish? I thought he was proud of her that she didn’t lie about killing it. I’d intended to hold out for a special edition with both movies and a trivia track and all those goodies, but I broke down and bought _Vol. 1_ on DVD this week. I just had to see the sword-giving ceremony and the Crazy 88 battle again. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/154 "2004-04-30T13:58:57Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Eh, the way I look at it is that in the Tarantinoverse he’s about as good a father as you could expect. I dunno. I’d rank someone who crams a wristwatch up his ass for five years in a Vietnamese prison camp a bit higher on the list. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/155 "2004-04-30T18:37:21Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Eh, the way I look at it is that in the Tarantinoverse he’s about as good a father as you could expect. And also, what kind of mother would B end up becoming as well? I mean, the whole point of Bill’s interrogation of her was that “You can’t escape who you are,” meaning that even with her, B.B. was going to be raised by a killer and most likely surrounded by violence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483/156 "2004-04-30T19:27:06Z")
She’ll be raised by a lioness to be a lioness, instead of by a snake-charmer to be a snake. If this is better or not I can’t say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kill-bill-volume-2-spoilers/240483.md?page=7)