food safety advice is too wash all solid meat before cooking it.
Well, there’s already a law. I’m no longer sure what the question at hand is here.
Actually, nitpicking aside, the question is fairly clear in the OP.
Botulism in food usually occurs when things are improperly canned. The bacterium is anaerobic, so it cannot grow unless sealed. But if you don’t heat the canned item enough, it will survive.
The bacteria is not a problem, though. It’s the fact that while the bacteria is alive it produces a deadly toxin. The bacteria is not the problem, but the toxin remains (though it can break down with cooking).
Seriously, I’ve read through the entire thread and all your responses and I still have no clue what you thought you were asking.
And apparently neither do the dozen other people who give baffled posts.
I think PCR might be capable of detecting dead bacteria. Don’t ask me to write up a procedure. I just think that if there is DNA left, it ought to be possible to pick it up.
Why, is another question entirely. It has no health significance whatsoever.
I see neither the cause of your puzzlement, not the dozen other baffled posts, but here’s the page that brought me here.
A couple articles mention that ammonium hydroxide is there to kill the bacteria and make it safe for consumption. Hence the “dead bacteria”. And the USDA did say it’s good.
I did say “FDA” where I should have said “USDA”. Could that be the source of your confusion?
Baffled? Really.
All that aside, I still prefer my ground beef without the pink slime. I do realize that the meat factories can hide it from me.
You can rinse that meat off all you want. It will still contain a good amount of dead and not so dead bacteria. Anyway if you have a problem with the slime keep on grinding your own meat. It does give you control over the amount of grind you are wanting and yes it is a bit safer, oh yeah and it tastes better.
I am guessing that the amount of residual ammonia in the beef after treatment will be not harmful or this sort of thing wouldn’t pass USDA guidelines. What, exactly, is your concern then? Are you complaining there’s beef in your beef? Or that it has been treated to reduce spoilage?
Basically what rinsing does is move the “use by” date more into the future, maybe allowing the good bacteria more time to work their magic tendering the meat. But I’m guessing here. I have eaten some pretty “well aged” steaks, though. Good stuff.
It’s that it’s treated scraps that annoys me. I really don’t see why that (the fact that I’m annoyed) should concern anyone.
I don’t appreciate unlabled GA foods either.
Something was raised and killed to become your food. It’s labeled beef, and it is beef. If it had chicken or pork in it, it would be incorrectly labeled. If it was unsafe, I would complain with you. If it tastes awful to you, you can be annoyed, and I see that. However, you’ve made it clear that you are bothered that some parts of this cow are conceptually “scraps” and should be wasted rather than used. You are entitled to your opinion, but don’t be surprised if people like me are baffled and disgusted by your spoiled and disrespectful attitude towards food when you express it in a public forum.
Your GQ has been answered: No, dead bacteria don’t count because dead bacteria are not harmful and there is no easy way of counting them. The rest is just ideology.
People say that ground beef with pink slime is ground beef and GA apples are apples. They are. People also say that masa (you know, for tamales) is corn meal, which it is. Try selling that to a mexican cook.
I know, I know, someone out there has a beloved old abuelita who makes tamales with Alber’s corn meal and everybody loves them. 
I think beef trimmings are more comparable to mechanically separated chicken than to genetically modified apples. Genetically modified apples are a new technology that might present a food safety risk. It’s not like they’re new parts of the cow that we’ve never eaten before.
Nice post, but those scraps (that’s really what they are, nothing conceptual about it) are not wasted. They’re simply put to other, less profitable uses. Some goes into pet foods. What, you hate dogs and think they should starve?
Did I say that trimmings are close to ga apples?
I did though say “treated” scraps.
Go ahead and make some more thoughtful posts. I’m sleepy and I’m going to bed. I’ll read them tomorrow. If you want to be nasty you should go to GD.
Much love,
mangeorge
[Gangrene gang mafia boss]
Yep, killed bacteria can’t count, they are not able to rat on you either.
[/GGMB]
No it’s not. Most botulism outbreaks have been associated with either traditional Native American food or improperly canned goods. I’m unable to find a single botulism case in the US that involves ground beef.
That’s ridiculous. Yes, tap water contains a small amount of bacteria but far less than meat. Washing with tap water is not going to increase the bacterial load.
Properly canned foods have no bacteria in them.
If you’re thinking that pink slime is added to raise the pH of the meat it’s added to, that’s not completely accurate.
This is all from one NPR show, so there may be more info to add. The mechanically separated meat is trimmings that are mostly fat with some connective tissue. It’s removed, then heated to render out the fat. Because most of it comes from the outside of the meat, and is therefore more likely to harbor bacteria, it’s then finely chopped/shredded and then exposed to ammonium hydroxide (if that’s the right compound) gas. The gas raises the pH and kills possible bacteria. I assume this product is added to hamburger because they get more money that way than they do putting it in pet food. They don’t do it to kill germs in the hamburger.
No mention was made of enough being added to change the pH of the hamburger. Since the texture is different, I’m guessing that they’re careful to add a small enough amount to maintain a hamburger texture.
On the one hand, it does seem a little sneaky to add this without labeling even though it’s obviously treated beef bits. On the other hand, I’m not afraid of “connective tissue” (check out the NPR website if you want to hear “connective tissue” being used as an epithet). I’m also not freaked at the idea of “extra processing, which adds extra opportunity for contamination” or by the name Pink Slime.
As to the question in the OP - no, dead bacteria don’t count as contamination because there’s no way to test for them. There are allowable counts for live bacteria and probably allowable counts for rat hairs and turds. The same can be said for peanut butter. IIRC, peanut butter also has a mold count, because there’s a mold that peanuts are prone to, in bulk storage, that’s toxic in smallish amounts.
As long as the USDA keeps the rat turd numbers down, I don’t think I’ll get worked up about the pink slime. I won’t kick if the appalled hair-pulling results in labelling conventions, but I won’t work to avoid it, either. Every time they said “connective tissue” on that radio show, I thought of home-made soup stock. Mmmmm. Connective tissue.