# Killing coyotes to help the ranchers. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 2, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735 "2005-01-02T20:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/41 "2005-01-03T18:57:29Z")
During the 2003/04 deer season 182,000 deer were harvested in Iowa.I couldn’t find the number of deer licenses sold but I’ll assure you it was many more than the deer harvested. Just having a license does not assure you of harvesting a deer. There are meat hunters and there are trophy hunters. Iowa is well known for its trophy deer. Just ask the 3 guys from Louisiana that lost all their hunting equipment and received a very large fine because they couldn’t bear to let those 3 trophy bucks walk by. They had antlerless licenses. My biggest gripe is the way coyotes are hunted around here but I just had to answer the deer comment. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/42 "2005-01-03T19:24:12Z")
I’m from Ottumwa, but I’ve never seen a coyote in my life. Are there really enough of them in Iowa that they are causing disturbances? ---
**Author:** ![Caprese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@Caprese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caprese)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/43 "2005-01-03T22:06:00Z")
> [@Canadiangirl](#): > > We have a problem similar here…Canada geese…although I’m not sure that the population is actually increasing…I believe, through observation, that the standing water (ponds, streams, etc.) that we are blocking off at a mile a minute is resulting in many geese at fewer ponds rather than an increase in the population. We have Canada geese that winter in huge flocks here, and they sometimes are thought to be a nuisance at country clubs and such. They do leave behind quite a bit of poop. This is another problem which some people are resolving with canines. Border collie type dogs are used to disperse the flocks two or three times a day. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/44 "2005-01-03T22:24:54Z")
> [@legion](#): > > We have a similar practice in the UK, only the farmers need help getting rid of foxes, not coyotes. > > We don’t shoot them either. A bunch of people get all dressd up and set a bunch of hounds on the trail of a fox. The bunch of people follow on horesback. Sometimes the fox will run itself to death. Sometimes the fox will be caught by the hounds and ripped to shreads. Sometimes the fox will escape. > > Seems like a pretty inefficient way to help solve the farmers problem to me. Oscar Wilde described it as “The Unspeakable in pursuit of the Uneatable.” ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/45 "2005-01-03T22:36:26Z")
> [@soulburnz](#): > > You forgot to mention the beer drinking part :smack: That must be to make it more challenging for them :rolleyes: > > Since the pelts aren’t worth much - a lot of the time they will let the dogs kill them and not even have to waste their bullets. > > They were always close to our house though… right out in the corn field outside the bedroom windows. That was kind of annoying when trying to sleep on a summer night. Had to watch our little house dog when we let her out too so they didn’t bug her. I’m not going to generalize a rebuttal about hunters drinking as I’m sure there are some that do, but I guarantee they are in a vast minority. As for your 2nd statement, if said hunters chose to allow their valuable hunting dogs to be put at risk in favor of the cost of a bullet, then they must be part of the minority mentioned above. Most rural homeowners don’t worry about the coyotes **bugging** their house pets. They worry about them **killing and eating** them instead. Yes it does happen and it’s not a rare occurance. Coyotes have rapidly elevated their population to pest status in the Midwest over the last 25 years. As their numbers have grown, so has their boldness. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/46 "2005-01-03T22:50:35Z")
> [@wolf in second hand clothing](#): > > I’m from Ottumwa, but I’ve never seen a coyote in my life. Are there really enough of them in Iowa that they are causing disturbances? Hell - there are enough in Mississippi as to be seen every once in a while. I hear them just about every night. In fact they’re in Memphis, TN (human population about 700,000) where a relative of mine lives ----- she says they come up to her backyard fence on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/47 "2005-01-04T00:33:53Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > I’m not going to generalize a rebuttal about hunters drinking as I’m sure there are some that do, but I guarantee they are in a vast minority. > > As for your 2nd statement, if said hunters chose to allow their valuable hunting dogs to be put at risk in favor of the cost of a bullet, then they must be part of the minority mentioned above. > > Most rural homeowners don’t worry about the coyotes **bugging** their house pets. They worry about them **killing and eating** them instead. Yes it does happen and it’s not a rare occurance. > > Coyotes have rapidly elevated their population to pest status in the Midwest over the last 25 years. As their numbers have grown, so has their boldness. Chihuahuas don’t deserve to live anyway. _Just Kidding_ 😉 My chihuahua loving daughter would disown me for that. I’ve read some about coyotes and dogs. They (coyotes) run form the big ones, try to mate with the medium ones, and _rarely_ kill the tiny, timid ones. Usually it’s when that little toy poodle goes chasing after the coyote. Why do so many little dogs think they’re such badasses? Spoiled, I suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/48 "2005-01-04T00:44:38Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Long ago, our forefathers and foremothers wiped out the local wolves and cougars. They killed a lot of coyotes, too, but those are coming back to pest status. When man alters the predator balance like that, we have a responsiblity to act as predators ourselves. When wolves and cougars roamed the land, they kept the rabbits, mice, and deer down to a reasonable number. Our great great great grandfathers left us with a surplus of groundhogs (sorry, **whistlepig,** ) and deer. I don’t hunt, and I feel sorta guilty about that. If I were more responsible, I’d go out and kill my share of the bunnies and Bambis that rightly belonged to the wolves. > > … It wasn’t that long ago and it continues. Here’s a novel idea, we could stop killing off the predators and disturbing the whole balance of nature deal. There are enough prey species out there for both man and the natural predators that still have some wild range to roam. And no, that does not include livestock, I don’t believe ranchers loose as many livestock to predators as they claim. As for coyotes, they may be considered a pest by some but I think they have shown incredible adaptability to expand their range as they have. We even have them here in Florida now which was unheard of just 20 years ago. Of course, we used to have a wolf species in the south that ranged into Florida, the Red Wolf, but someone had to kill them off leaving a niche to fill. I still don’t like this thread. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/49 "2005-01-04T00:45:42Z")
Wouldn’t _most_ systems, with the absolute minimal help (ie re-introduction) and given reasonable time, eventually balance out? Starvation is an aspect of nature. Which, by the way, is one of those things which seperate us humans from “real” nature. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/50 "2005-01-04T02:22:50Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Coyotes have rapidly elevated their population to pest status in the Midwest over the last 25 years. As their numbers have grown, so has their boldness. Darned hamsters just ate a post. Take two. Actually, from what I recall in my readings from 15-20 years ago, most of the substantiated attacks on humans, livestock, and pets were the result of coydogs - hybrids of coyote and feral dog stock. These animals are truly dangerous, because they inheirit the worst traits of their parentage: From the coyote, they get the cunning, and from the feral dog they get familiarity with humans. Not a fun combination. The problem is that coyotes, the northern wolf, the red wolf and the domestic dog are four seperate species, seperated by social barriers rather than genetic or physical barriers. This means that where they share territory, there has always been some interbreeding. In fact, IIRC, a few years ago Nature published an article about how a careful examination of the red wolf’s genes lead the researchers to conclude that the red wolf is a coyote northern wolf hybrid. Of the three wild species the one most likely to interbreed outside the species is the coyote. Add to that the feral dog population that exists outside most any rural or suburban area, and when the coyotes move in, they start breeding with the dogs. Of course, the good news is that coydogs are far, far easier to catch than coyotes. I did mention that coyotes are paranoid, right? There are documented cases I recall from the Hope Ryden book and others where coyotes would walk past entrails left behind from a roadkill deer dressed by a passing motorist, for fear that they’d been poisoned. (In at least one of the cases, they had been, so it’s not exactly an unwarranted concern, either.) Oh, it’s not just in the US that coyotes are spreading. 😃 They’ve been found in 49 of the 50 states; (You get just one guess who’s still free.) Most of the Canadian provinces and territories;all of Mexico; and have been seen south of the Panama Canal. There are even reports of sightings in the Amazon basin. :eek: Of course, that’s what we get for breeding for a super-intelligent coyote. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/51 "2005-01-04T02:23:18Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Wouldn’t _most_ systems, with the absolute minimal help (ie re-introduction) and given reasonable time, eventually balance out? Starvation is an aspect of nature. Which, by the way, is one of those things which seperate us humans from “real” nature. You’re probably correct. But IMHO we would be in a hell of a fix before it happened. The 3 deer diseases I mentioned above would probably kill off many of the cattle and sheep. Predators would thrive until the wild population of prey was “controlled” then no domestic animal would be safe. But before this all gets started 142,000 more deer would have to eat. Then next spring when all those cute little fawns are born… As mentioned above deer don’t just eat wild grasses. Forget your garden. Forget your sweetcorn patch. Forget the farm economy. Forget driving at any speed over about 35mph. No one is saying that the present method is perfect. Its not but it is working. It has for years. Also if you look at the Iowa DNR site you’ll find that on an average each of those deer hunters spend somewhere around $250.00 each season. Thats a lot of money. regards just ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Roboto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@Mr.Roboto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Roboto)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/52 "2005-01-04T17:51:44Z")
> [@Canadiangirl](#): > > I like your style, Mr. Roboto - will join on the ice - can we fire at will? I am definitely in. > > We have a problem similar here…Canada geese…although I’m not sure that the population is actually increasing…I believe, through observation, that the standing water (ponds, streams, etc.) that we are blocking off at a mile a minute is resulting in many geese at fewer ponds rather than an increase in the population. > > Also the spring bear hunt - that’s something to be awefully proud of, isn’t it? You bait the site for weeks in the fall then again in the spring…then you sit up a tree and fire at mom and the new cubs when they come out of hibernation. Of course,you can’t fire at the cubs and jeez, we know you’re only supposed to fire at sows but who knows? Jesus, am I glad they banned that! > > Now, people are complaining about bears in their garbage! Of course, these are the same people who leave garbage bags around DESPITE BEING WARNED AGAIN AND AGAIN and restaurants leaving their grease pits unprotected. > > Yeesh! Canada Geese Update…I live next to a Naval Weapons Depot that is also a game reserve here in Seal Beach,CA. Right Now, there are Thousands of Canadian Geese resting and fattening up here on they’re annual northern migration. My wife and I love they’re visits. This Weapons Depot is hugh and the majestic Geese are safe here. Once while visiting Surrey, I saw a flock flying overhead about 100 ft. above. Here, they fly too high to really discern them from the flocks of Cormmorants and other coastal birds. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/53 "2005-01-04T21:50:17Z")
It’s only Jan 4th, geese must migrate North early in CA. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/54 "2005-01-05T01:33:45Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > It’s only Jan 4th, geese must migrate North early in CA. The real problem in a lot of places isn’t just Canada geese, it’s [nonmigratory Canada geese](http://www.cityofseattle.net/parks/communitynotices/goosefaq.htm). ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/55 "2005-01-05T02:33:04Z")
We have geese that stay all year here in SE Iowa. When I was growing up I would ocassionally see a duck but it would have been a real treat to see a goose. ---
**Author:** ![ponderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@ponderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ponderer)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/56 "2005-01-05T14:27:40Z")
Case Sensitive, sounds to me like you could use a few coyotes to take care of your feral cats. I have to shoot coyotes where I live to protect my cat from being eaten by the damn things. I have to have a cat because of the extreme rodent population in my area. Think the coyotes will eat the rodents? Hell, no, they would much rather eat your pets. Maybe these bunny huggers can catch you some of these wonderful coyotes and ship them to you and I can assure you they will wipe out your cat problem. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/57 "2005-01-06T00:12:02Z")
> [@ponderer](#): > > Case Sensitive, sounds to me like you could use a few coyotes to take care of your feral cats. I have to shoot coyotes where I live to protect my cat from being eaten by the damn things. I have to have a cat because of the extreme rodent population in my area. Think the coyotes will eat the rodents? Hell, no, they would much rather eat your pets. Maybe these bunny huggers can catch you some of these wonderful coyotes and ship them to you and I can assure you they will wipe out your cat problem. You must shoot a _lot_ of coyotes to control their population well enough to protect your kitties. And, you must have a _lot_ of kitties for them to control your rodents better than coyotes can. And you and your neighbors must have an _awful lot_ of kitties, collectively, for those coyotes to subsist on them rather than on the rodents. :dubious: Where do you live, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/58 "2005-01-06T00:36:10Z")
> [@legion](#): > > Seems like a pretty inefficient way to help solve the farmers problem to me. But sounds like a lot fun. Like killing coyotes. Of course pathetic lowlife scum Petards and Humaniacs of whom I have less than zero respect for have banned it there. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735/59 "2005-01-06T01:00:19Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > But sounds like a lot fun. Like killing coyotes. Of course pathetic lowlife scum Petards and Humaniacs of whom I have less than zero respect for have banned it there. This is IMHO. Gotta be civil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-coyotes-to-help-the-ranchers/282735.md?page=2)