# Killing ET.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [December 8, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155 "2016-12-08T00:41:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/21 "2016-12-08T13:15:44Z")
> [@Xema](#):
>
> Humans don’t have much trouble holding non-human creatures responsible for killing humans, at least to the extent of punishing them for it. For example, a bear that kills a hiker is usually eliminated.
>
> This is, of course, not the same thing as saying the bear is held ‘legally’ responsible.
The intent in such cases is not to punish the animal, especially since said animal will never form any intellectual connection between its offense and its execution. It won’t even understand the fact that it’s being killed, let alone why.
The intent is to merely to eliminate an ongoing threat to humans in the area, since an animal that has killed humans is likely to do so again. It’s analogous to cutting down a dead tree that has large, decaying branches overhanging your house.
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### Author:  [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/22 "2016-12-08T13:41:52Z")
I wonder if any of this legal wrangling could apply to other creatures, possibly cyborgs, or even clones? Would a human clone be a fully lawful entity, or could something along the line of clone farms for transplants develop as in the movie _Parts; the Clonus Horror_?
I’ve heard that scientists have, in fact, already created human clones, and that one of these scientists has been arrested for shoving a clone off a building to its death.
Apparently, the scientist became enraged when the clone swore at him, and made rude gestures.
I use the term “its” because the arrested scientist plans to use the “clones aren’t human and therefore cannot be murdered” defense.
Won’t he be surprised when he finds out he’s been arrested, not for murder, but for making an obscene clone fall?
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### Author:  [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/23 "2016-12-08T18:12:51Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#):
>
> I wonder if any of this legal wrangling could apply to other creatures, possibly cyborgs, or even clones? Would a human clone be a fully lawful entity, or could something along the line of clone farms for transplants develop as in the movie _Parts; the Clonus Horror_?
>
> I’ve heard that scientists have, in fact, already created human clones, and that one of these scientists has been arrested for shoving a clone off a building to its death.
> Apparently, the scientist became enraged when the clone swore at him, and made rude gestures.
> I use the term “its” because the arrested scientist plans to use the “clones aren’t human and therefore cannot be murdered” defense.
>
> Won’t he be surprised when he finds out he’s been arrested, not for murder, but for making an obscene clone fall?
_golf clap_
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### Author:  [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/24 "2016-12-08T19:13:13Z")
> [@panache45](#):
>
> This would qualify as an example of the difference between “letter” of the law and “intent” of the law. Although the alien, being “humanoid,” wouldn’t fit the definition of “human,” he should still be granted personhood, based on the conceptual level of his consciousness. He’s after all, a member of a species intelligent enough to devise interstellar travel, so should have the same rights as we have. He should be treated as a visiting alien lacking paperwork (or an illegal alien, if you will), and his killer should be tried for murder.
The alien might be intelligent, but not conscious—as in, doesn’t have any sort of subjective experience whatsoever. Since morality is often based on the notion of suffering, or at least, of deprivation of pleasure, but the alien doesn’t have the capacity for either, what would the verdict then be? Is it OK to hurt something that doesn’t feel pain? Even murder it?
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### Author:  [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/25 "2016-12-08T23:06:48Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#):
>
> This is just a hypothetical question (or is it;)?). But if a humanoid extraterrestrial came to earth, and someone maliciously killed him (i.e., not in self-defense, not out of fear), would this person be legally liable for anything?
>
> The 14th Amendment says no state shall deny any “person” the equal protection of the laws. But it is vague on what exactly is a “person”. Certainly, the definition has broadened over the years, to include women, African Americans, and so forth.
>
> What rules would apply? And how would the US Supreme Court treat this case, likely, if it came to them?
>
> :):)🙂
My personal opinion would have to include the amount of legs or tentacles. But if the bug eyed monster is actually expired, it gets taken for an autopsy, and then the feds show up and it never gets seen again, which is about the extent of it ever being seen by the supremes.
Polite enquiries by Rigellian battle cruisers , about their ambassador is someone else’s problem
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/26 "2016-12-09T05:47:21Z")
[This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=538534) is an older (and funnier, IMHO) thread on the same topic. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/27 "2016-12-09T05:57:44Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#):
>
> I honestly think someone would lose their hunting license if they take an alien without a tag … and most States doesn’t issue tags for aliens … this might not be as hypothetical as you think … IMEIO …
That’s why you buy the Sports Pac (formerly Sportsman pack). Then you get license and tags for just about everything.
> [@](#):
>
> Sports Pac
>
> Includes Combination Angling/Hunting/Shellfish License, Combined Angling Harvest Tag, Upland Bird and Waterfowl Validations, plus a General or Controlled Deer, General or Controlled Elk, Cougar, General or Controlled Bear, and Spring Turkey tag.) Add a Columbia River Basin Endorsement for $9.75 when purchased with SportsPac
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/28 "2016-12-09T13:01:44Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#):
>
> The alien might be intelligent, but not conscious—as in, doesn’t have any sort of subjective experience whatsoever. Since morality is often based on the notion of suffering, or at least, of deprivation of pleasure, but the alien doesn’t have the capacity for either, what would the verdict then be? Is it OK to hurt something that doesn’t feel pain? Even murder it?
There are severely damaged people who fit this description. Don’t they have rights?
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### Author:  [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/29 "2016-12-09T13:50:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=538534) is an older (and funnier, IMHO) thread on the same topic. 🙂
Well, excuuuuuuuuse me! I spent almost an hour on a crowded bus tapping out that clone fall joke!
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### Author:  [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/30 "2016-12-09T15:47:18Z")
Suppose the killer simply thinks that it’s some strange and threatening animal, but authorities know otherwise either before or after the fact.
Or suppose the killer recognizes that it’s an alien, sees some gesture as frightening, and “stands his ground”.
Thinking about it, that’s an interesting story idea. Some place like Florida refuses to prosecute because the person at least claims to have been genuinely fearful and standing his or her ground, and because of this we’re faced with interplanetary war.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/31 "2016-12-09T18:00:48Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#):
>
> I honestly think someone would lose their hunting license if they take an alien without a tag … and most States doesn’t issue tags for aliens … this might not be as hypothetical as you think … IMEIO …
Everyone using State Fish and Game Laws seem to be ignoring the fact that I can kill mice and rats without license nor tag.
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### Author:  [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/32 "2016-12-09T19:28:56Z")
Xenomorph season! Predator season!
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### Author:  [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/33 "2016-12-09T21:18:52Z")
Sounds like it’d be a bad day for vermin!
[https://appfiction.net/2016/05/27/a-bad-day-for-vermin-by-keith-laumer-read-time-10mins/](https://appfiction.net/2016/05/27/a-bad-day-for-vermin-by-keith-laumer-read-time-10mins/)
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### Author:  [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/34 "2016-12-10T14:43:36Z")
> [@kayaker](#):
>
> Everyone using State Fish and Game Laws seem to be ignoring the fact that I can kill mice and rats without license nor tag.
Correct. Many species can be killed without a license. The logic is revealing of the mindset of many posters: the thought that government allows you to do things, rather than prohibiting things.
Things that aren’t specifically illegal are legal. “Legal” is the default, not the other way around. And that’s the way it should be.
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### Author:  [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-et/774155/35 "2016-12-10T16:01:17Z")
Law and Thee Multiverse, a blog by a lawyer who likes examining comic book situations from the perspective of real law, did a series on the topic. It’s not something that you can get a definite answer on because courts don’t issue definite rulings on arbitrary hypotheticals, but the gist of it is that aliens that were operating vehicles and otherwise acting intelligent would probably be considered in the same category as humans.
[http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/01/12/non-human-intelligences-i-introduction/](http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/01/12/non-human-intelligences-i-introduction/)
[http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/01/20/non-human-intelligences-ii-existing-law/](http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/01/20/non-human-intelligences-ii-existing-law/)
[http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/02/02/non-human-intelligences-iii-categories/](http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2011/02/02/non-human-intelligences-iii-categories/)
> [@RivkahChaya](#):
>
> 1970 is “very old”? :eek:
1970 to 2016 is 46 years, 1930 to 1970 is 40 years, so if you would have called a silent film ‘very old’ in the 1970s I think it’s safe to call a 1970 movie ‘very old’ now. The first technicolor film was in 1935, and didn’t become popular until the 1950s, so if you would have called something from the black and white era ‘very old’ in the '90s, a 1970 film would be just as old now.
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