I wasn’t trying to get a rise out of anyone. I will say that a governmental agency taking land for the purpose of building a highway is in no way comparable to taking land for the purpose of protecting habitat. My point is simply that most people will not willingly surrender their property for any endangered species unless they are made to. You need look no further than Cape Coral, Florida, home to the endangered burrowing owl for examples of what I mean.
A fair question, Qadgop. If you could see me, I’m preparing to duck and run for cover (taking care not to mash any worms along the way) when I tell you it seems different to me. Fish don’t have the same pain sensors we have, so probably (I hope) don’t suffer like mammals do. Somebody will no doubt tell me fish suffocate in the burlap bag on the deck, in between literary shouts of “Hypocrite!” It’s unavoidable when you discuss something that’s basically emotional. I have fished. Enjoyed it. Would do it again. I don’t really know why it’s different, but it feels different to me. Inconsistent, absolutely. Hypocritical, probably. Do I feel guilty about it? Nope.
I weighed in earlier basically because of my feeling about the sport angle of hunting. And in answer to Triss’s comment, **“It’s the whole thing, the preparation, the anticipation, the peace that seeps into your bones after hours spent in the (relative) quiet of the bush or on the water. It’s the patience and endurance one must learn to have any success. It’s the sense of focus, the sharpening of the senses and concentration which might be a form of meditation, in a way. It’s the satisfaction of attaining a measure of self-sufficiency, the opportunity for which many of us have become far removed in the urban environment,” **I can only say all of those things can be achieved in the stalking of an animal on a photo expedition. The whole OP wasn’t about the act of hunting. It was about killing for sport, or for fun.
Also I took issue with Scylla, who seemed to be unusually vituperative in his remarks to Opal. I wouldn’t have noticed it as much but Scylla is usually less emeotional and more balanced and thoughtful. Hell, I’m the one who tends to go off on a rant. But then, I’m one of four siblings and I was the rant of the litter.
Guess I should duck and run for that one, too!
Geezer:
Actually I think fish share the exact same pain mechanisms that we do.
[quote]
Also I took issue with Scylla, who seemed to be unusually vituperative in his remarks to Opal. I wouldn’t have noticed it as much but Scylla is usually less emeotional and more balanced and thoughtful.
[quote]
Yes, I was. I don’t appreciate being told that I’m a sick individual, by someone who is completely ignorant of what it is that they think is so sick, nor do I appreciate being told that there is something wrong with me simply because my values are different.
It seems there’s a lot of this going on on the board these days.
People pick something they don’t like and talk shit about the people who disagree. Republicanism is evil, the Catholic Church is evil, fundamental Christians are evil, anybody that suports our country’s stance on Iraw is evil. George Bush is stupid and crazy, hunter’s are sick, etc. etc. etc.
Patience doesn’t always work. Some people are so shallow and unimaginative and so sure that their perspective is the right one just because it is their perspective. People that condemn things they don’t understand are just simply dim in that circumstance. When they begin to flaunt their they deserve to have their asses handed to them.
I’ve been an idiot on these boards and I’ve had my ass handed to me, and I’m better for it.
I don’t remember your being an idiot. I don’t really think Opal was either. She just reacted emotionally. Now, if you called me a hypocrite for hating deer hunting and liking fishing, I understand. But Opal doesn’t even eat them. She’s a tender soul and can’t help herself.
By the way, isn’t George Bush stu… um, never mind. 
Either all life is scared or no life is scared.
We are not always the top of the food chain, there are some ity-bity viruses that eat our lunch do to speak.
Try night swimming on the Great Barrier reef. he he he
The non- killers and the killers will never agree and as DG said, it is an emotional thing, not a reason thing.
A lot of good ammo was brought out in this thread. I’ll prolly steal some of it.
The final worth of life in a Godless world is the difficulty in taking it away.
In a God world, it is humility, not thinking lees of yourself but thinking of yourself less.
Hunters are and gathers are in both.
YMMV
To you mean sacred?
With all the weapons about, s/he probably means SCARED!:eek:
Yeah, I’m scared that I wrote To, instead of Do.
:smack:
GusNSpot is right. It is a very arrogant thing to order life according to some human priority. Why is a fish less important than a deer or human? DesertGeezer, you may be making yourself feel better by thinking fish don’t feel pain, but by what right do you take its life? You are still ending a living creature’s life. It is hypocritical to enjoy fishing and then turn around and denounce deer hunters. Deer may be cuter than fish, but they are not more important or ‘better’ just because they are mammals.
Can you fish by sitting on a boat and peering over the side to look at fish? Why not do that instead of killing the fish?
BTW, sport hunting is the term used for when a person buys a deer tag, goes out kills a deer, and then brings it home for dinner. The other type of hunting is market hunting. Commercial fishing is a modern day example. What you do, DG, is sport fishing. So condeming “sport hunting” is condeming everyone who hunts today. If someone were to start a thread “Fishing for sport? Give me a break” they’d be directly targeting you.
I just have to add another bit here. It’s not like hunters are running pell-mell through the woods whenever they want, shooting at anything that moves, and killing however many deer they want.
Hunting is very carefully regulated, with defined “Seasons.”
Here in Maryland, bow season starts first, and gun season starts (I think) two weeks later. I’m not sure how long they run. Obviously, regulations vary by state.
And the season for each animal (deer, birds, etc.) is regulated, too. You can only take a certain number of animals, and once you hit that limit you’re done. If you go over, you will be heavily fined, or even serve jail time. We have a cabin in Western Maryland, and some animals (like wild turkeys) we can shoot if they’re on our property past season, but not deer.
You can look here for more info.
My husband hunts, and I’ve gone with him a few times. Personally, it’s not for me. It’s not the killing aspect that bothers me, I would just rather be back in the cabin in front of the fireplace with a cup of hot chocolate and a good book, rather than tramping through the cold woods looking for deer poop.
I do understand the challenge of it.
And I do enjoy the venison.
And as for the bit about getting your own meat versus buying the sterile packages at the store? You would not believe the difference in taste between a store-bought Butterball turkey and a wild turkey. You’d never believe they’re supposedly the same critter.
Good point. I spent some early morning hours on Lake Arrowhead once without even taking a pole. Enjoyed it very much. I’ll think about it some more.
On the infrequent times I've gone fishing, this is not an uncommon occurance.
Of course, this just means we’re lousy fishermen,because we ARE trying to catch them…
I hunt, and I’ve been a sport hunter for many years. That means that I go out into the woods to attempt to stand still enough in one spot that a deer will walk by me so that I can kill it and take it home where it will be eaten on my table. A day spent hunting is generally a long, hard day in the cold, in which I might not even see a single deer let alone one that would be legal to kill.
I have gone the entire two weeks of buck season and been skunked (not getting a deer) and I’ve been lucky enough to kill my dinner the first morning of the season. I time my shots and on the occassion that I wound the animal, I’ve put hours of exhaustive effort into tracking it. I am well aware that I am only a guest in their world, and that as adversaries they are worthy and deserving of my respect. When I kill a deer, I am grateful to it for giving its life to sustain mine.
I look at people who hunt on fenced-in preserves, out of their trucks (AKA road-hunting), and who hunt only for a trophy with a measure of disgust because they are selfish, they don’t respect the animals, and they sure as hell are not people I want to be associated with. Trophy hunting is an insult to a prey animal.
I’m of the mind that something, plant or animal, has to die in order for me to live. I prefer to get my meat by going out into the woods for an animal vs. animal match of skill and instinct because I respect the things that die to keep me alive. I enjoy the hunt, of which the kill is part, and I take strong issue with anyone who calls me sick or evil because of it. I am aware that as a living thing I have a place in the food chain. Human beings by their nature are predatory. We hunt, we farm, we raise food animals and we kill. The very best I can do as a part of nature is to understand my role in it and respect those that die to give me life.
catsix desposits another $.02 in the jar.