# Killing Someone in Self Defense (Don't Need Answer Fast) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2010, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966 "2010-08-21T13:02:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/21 "2010-08-25T01:27:37Z")
Years ago a couple of brothers threatened my life. I thought they were serious and I carried a gun on my person for several months. The only advice I got from the local sheriff’s department was that if they attempted to break into my house, I could kill them. The guy I talked to told me that if it came to that and I did kill them I had best make certain the bodies were found inside my house; he went so far as to say that if the shotgun blast carried a body outside my door, I should drag it back in before calling the cops. This was years before I had a CCW. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Silver\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Fire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/22 "2010-08-25T01:48:37Z")
That sounds like horrible advice, Louis. You can’t tamper with a body you’ve just killed (regardless of circumstances). Besides which, I would think physically moving the body and thus tampering with evidence would look worse than simply explaining that the force had knocked him outside and could potentially make a case for “You killed him while he was fleeing when you were clearly no longer in danger and then dragged the body back inside to make it look like he was attacking you.” ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/23 "2010-08-25T01:50:50Z")
“The guy I talked to told me that if it came to that and I did kill them I had best make certain the bodies were found inside my house; he went so far as to say that if the shotgun blast carried a body outside my door, I should drag it back in before calling the cops.” From experience I can tell you this is not accurate. Further, and unless you’re hiding something, the last thing I’d do is tamper with a crime scene/evidence. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/24 "2010-08-25T02:43:03Z")
PA and personal experience. You will probably get arrested but without the cuffs and all or taken into custody for questioning. It will also most likely go before a coroners inquest or grand jury. But the chances of it hitting trial are real slim unless you end up with a civil lawsuit. Or unless you dragged the body back inside. Don’t laugh but ages ago a dentist from the South Hills area of Pittsburgh did just that. The shooting was ruled justified but he caught jail time for perjury, filing false reports, tampering and other things related to the event. SanDiegoTim isn’t just whistling; if you got a body on you just play it as it fell. Don’t try to improve your hand in the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/25 "2010-08-25T02:53:59Z")
> [@Silver\_Fire](#): > > That sounds like horrible advice, Louis. You can’t tamper with a body you’ve just killed (regardless of circumstances). Besides which, I would think physically moving the body and thus tampering with evidence would look worse than simply explaining that the force had knocked him outside and could potentially make a case for “You killed him while he was fleeing when you were clearly no longer in danger and then dragged the body back inside to make it look like he was attacking you.” I think you and the coroner could tell what side of the body the big hole started on. The big problem is if the perp was turning for some reason and it looks like they were shot in the back. Plus, if you shoot them through the door, it looks less likely that they were getting through the door and thus realistically threatening. Of course, the prosecutor could try to argue there was no hole in the door because you left it wide open. The trick is to convince a jury. This is the key - a trial costs a LOT of money. The prosecutor is going to weigh first if a crime likely even happened, then whether it is in the interests of justice to pursue a case, and then whether there is a chance of winning. People who have a good reason to argue self-defence can usually argue that line really well in front of 12 people who don’t care too much about the niceties of law versus a right to feel safe. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/26 "2010-08-25T13:39:45Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > he went so far as to say that if the shotgun blast carried a body outside my door, I should drag it back in before calling the cops. This was years before I had a CCW. Unless he meant “The body falls down and happens to be in the outside doorway” shotgun blasts don’t work like that. Any shotgun fired that can physically knock someone back and/or fly through the air… will do the same thing to the shooter. Newton’s second law, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Erasmus\_Darwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@Erasmus\_Darwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erasmus_Darwin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/27 "2010-08-25T14:05:36Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The big problem is if the perp was turning for some reason and it looks like they were shot in the back. I’m reminded of the [Gary Fadden](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_168_28/ai_112685749/) case. He used a legally possessed automatic firearm (a machine gun under ATF rules) to shoot a biker who was attacking him. The biker turned as he was being shot, so one of the rounds struck him in the back. A dickhead of a prosecutor used this as an excuse to pursue Fadden on murder charges. Fortunately, he was acquitted at trial, but it seemed like an expensive and unnecessary ordeal. Also, on the “body inside/outside” issue, my state (Florida) explicitly includes someone in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering a dwelling in addition to someone who’s already entered. So theoretically, it seems like you’d be in the clear if you shot someone who was outside and, say, trying to jimmy your window open. Personally, however, I’d consider it more prudent to wait for things to be more clear cut. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/28 "2010-08-25T14:13:15Z")
Legal experts: what if someone attacks me and my dog severely injures or kills them? This is actually something I worry about (said dog is a 70 lb GSD mix). ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/29 "2010-08-25T14:26:22Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Legal experts: what if someone attacks me and my dog severely injures or kills them? This is actually something I worry about (said dog is a 70 lb GSD mix). Unless there have been changes in the past few years, in PA that is probably the best case scenario if you are outside your home. A gun needs permits, something like a piece of chain or a knife brings in complications but a dog is a dog as long as it has its shots, tags and is on a leash. What happens to that leash once the attack takes place is another story. Where _some_ questions will come in is; was there really an attack to provoke the animal? Was the bad person dumb enough to attack you seeing you holding a leash of 70 pounds of toothed furball? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/30 "2010-08-25T15:09:49Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Years ago a couple of brothers threatened my life. I thought they were serious and I carried a gun on my person for several months. The only advice I got from the local sheriff’s department was that if they attempted to break into my house, I could kill them. The guy I talked to told me that if it came to that and I did kill them I had best make certain the bodies were found inside my house; he went so far as to say that if the shotgun blast carried a body outside my door, I should drag it back in before calling the cops. This was years before I had a CCW. I’ve heard the “drag them inside” thing before, but I don’t think it was meant literally. It’s more of a cautionary thing about the difficulties of claiming self-defense in a home invasion if you shoot the invader in your yard. It’s the kind of illustration that gets thrown around in gun rights circles. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/31 "2010-08-25T16:44:13Z")
The stuff the deputy told me wasn’t really advice and I didn’t take it as such. He was off duty and I was a guest at a party in his house, so his statements weren’t official. He was, I think, trying to make the point that if you kill someone who has forced his way into your home, you would be less likely to be prosecuted. If you kill someone who is standing in a doorway, you might not be successful in convincing the law that your life was really in danger. All of this took place in Fort Myers, Florida a long, long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/32 "2010-08-25T17:31:50Z")
> [@Al\_Bundy](#): > > We have a case that just ended in a mistrial here. The defendant admitted that he chased the man down for blocks after an attempt robbery. The robber gave up and had his hands up pleading. The defendant said, “I told him he was going to die and shot him.” > First the judge threw out murder in the 1st. Then they jury refused to convict by about 50/50. A retrial may be full acquittal. > > If my life is threatened, I’m programmed to go ballistic right off the bat and settle up later. I know from experience the best thing to do is shut up and get an attorney. The prosecutor has great latitude. If you don’t jump at their deal, they often throw in the towel in my venue. Is this the Tigh Croff case? The guy chased after and killed an unarmed man who was running away and who had surrendered. That’s exactly the kind of revenge killing that the justice system is supposed to replace. IIRC, Croff is a security guard by profession. People who are actually granted the authority to use deadly force as a part of their job should be required to exercise self control and cool judgment rather than “going ballistic.” ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/33 "2010-08-25T17:46:10Z")
I want to stress that the OP and others who are seriously interested in this would be best served by getting the Straight Dope from an attorney in their jurisdiction. Even if you think you know the law in your region, there is a good chance you really don’t know some important yet subtle aspect of it. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966/34 "2010-08-25T17:49:22Z")
My state has both the Castle Doctrine and a Stand Your Ground law, so a clear cut case of self defense probably isn’t ever going to even result in an arrest, much less anything further. If it’s not so clear cut, the self defense can be argued at trial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/killing-someone-in-self-defense-dont-need-answer-fast/550966.md?page=1)