# Kilroy Was Here **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 5, 2000, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236 "2000-08-05T09:06:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DaveoRad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@DaveoRad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveoRad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/1 "2000-08-05T09:06:08Z")
[http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mkilroy.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mkilroy.html) In college one day in 1983, I trekked to a campus nook little frequented by anyone except druggies and very, very bored people (guess which one I was), and drew a Kilroy on the wall with “Kilroy hic erat”. When I later returned, some wit had written: “And if you ever return, Kilroy, we’d like to thank you for spreading a little culture by writing it in Latin.” (Maybe this should go under MPSIMS, but I’ll recklessly go ahead and post it here.) ---
**Author:** ![DaveoRad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@DaveoRad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveoRad)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2000, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/2 "2000-08-05T09:12:19Z")
Another thing. At work one day, I drew a big U-shaped nose and put it on a half wall, then amused my coworkers by posing so the upper part of my head was showing above the U-shaped nose. (For some reason, this was not long before the nice men in white coats came by to fit me with a really keen new jacket with sleeves in the back.) ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/3 "2000-08-06T05:00:45Z")
**Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable** gives George Edward Chatterton the credit for introducing the cartoon character Chad in 1938. Chatterton was a cartoonist who worked under the name “Chat”. **DaveoRad** : Sorry to pick nits but–Who am I kidding? I love to pick nits. _Erat_ is in the imperfect tense, implying Kilroy was here repeatedly or habitually. You probably should have written _Kilroy hic fuit_ (Kilroy was here [on one occasion].) You could cut the word count to two with _Kilroy affuit_ (Kilroy was present [on one occasion]). But besides a form of _adesse_, _affuit_ is also a form of _affuere_, so _Kilroy affuit_ might mean “Kilroy flows away.” ---
**Author:** ![DaveoRad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@DaveoRad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveoRad)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/4 "2000-08-06T06:51:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > \*\*Sorry to pick nits but–Who am I kidding? I love to pick nits. _Erat_ is in the imperfect tense, implying Kilroy was here repeatedly or habitually. You probably should have written _Kilroy hic fuit_ (Kilroy was here [on one occasion].) You could cut the word count to two with _Kilroy affuit_ (Kilroy was present [on one occasion]). But besides a form of _adesse_, _affuit_ is also a form of _affuere_, so _Kilroy affuit_ might mean “Kilroy flows away.” \*\* Actually, instead of “tense”, don’t you mean “aspect”, or is the imperfect treated as a tense in Latin? (It’s been almost two decades since I studied the language.) I’ll somewhat grumblingly concede that your nitpicking may have hit pay dirt, though the “nit” in question may be just a piece of dandruff. Actually, if I were in a more belligerent mood, I’d argue that, as I (a.k.a. Kilroy) had been there habitually on numerous occasions, “erat” was used properly. As for flowing away, I got the impression that several choice liquids had in fact flowed away from the site in question. (But isn’t there actually an “l” in “affluit/affluere”, which would eliminate the ambiguity you propose? Sorry, now it’s my turn to apologise for picking nits. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2000, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/5 "2000-08-06T21:14:16Z")
Welcome to the nit-pickers’ club. **affuere** and **affluere** are two separate words, with similar meanings. See [Latin Word Forms](http://lysy2.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/WORDS.EXE?affuit) I was taught that the imperfect **tense** indicates progressive **aspect** and past **time**. There are some who consider imperfect to be the aspect, not the tense. ---
**Author:** ![Snaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Snaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snaf)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/6 "2000-08-07T12:08:17Z")
In Australia, the cartoon figure peering over a wall was (is?) usually subtitled ‘Foo was here’. Has Foo got an overseas presence as well, and does anyone know why ‘Foo’ rather than Kilroy, Overby etc? 🙂 Snaf ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/7 "2000-08-07T12:36:57Z")
In _The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language_, David Crystal writes that the Kilroy/Chad drawing may have been based on a diagram, “such as that of an alternating wave form, which could have been part of a lecture to military personnel.” Can anyone support or refute that theory? ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/8 "2000-08-07T13:48:07Z")
I recall that in the early 80s ‘Kilroy was here’ enjoyed a brief comeback in & around my high school. It was brought about by Styx releasing an album of the same name (the one with Mr. Roboto) and a history teacher who had WWII memories to share. Not relevent to anything I know, but I just wanted to share. ---
**Author:** ![dd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@dd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dd)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/9 "2000-08-07T18:16:44Z")
Does anyone have a graphic of Kilroy? I vaguely remember seeing it, but would like to see it again… thanx. -dd/ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/10 "2000-08-07T18:52:32Z")
I don’t know about the usage “Foo was here” with the Chad drawing, but the [Jargon File](http://www.science.uva.nl/~mes/jargon/f/foo.html) has a bit to say about the usage of the word “foo”. It makes a good read. ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/11 "2000-08-07T19:08:09Z")
Why does the article comment on Kilroy’s “ubiquitousness” when (it seems to me) his “ubiquity” would do just as well. Or is this just loquaciousness carried to an extreme? Is rampant syllabification now considered standardizedness? This is nonsensicality at its worst! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/12 "2000-08-07T19:42:06Z")
“Overby” ? Examples? Background? Proof? ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/13 "2000-08-08T04:58:15Z")
As for ubiquitousnessosityism, Washington D.C. has Cool “Disco” Dan, whose name adorns numerous structures all over the D.C. metro area. My dad said that he saw his name spray-painted as far away as Miami. C.D.D. doesn’t have an illustration, just his name. ---
**Author:** ![TinCanMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@TinCanMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TinCanMan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2000, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/14 "2000-08-08T15:50:33Z")
I remember reading a story about the Canadian version Clem. After he started appearing everywhere at a university campus, one professor addressed his class and told them not to spread the graffitti anymore. The next day when he returned to his classroom, he found the little guy scrawled on his desk with the words “Wot, no more Clem?” ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/15 "2000-08-09T16:17:52Z")
Since it looks like **CKDext** isn’t going to answer my query, I’ll postulate that he was only tendering an offhand tribute to **Maurice “Otherguy” Overby,** a terrific con-man character created by the late genius crime novelist **Ross Thomas,** who appeared in _Chinaman’s Chance_ (1978), _Out On the Rim_ (1987), and _Voodoo, Ltd._ (1992). _“We first met Otherguy where – in Manila?” “Yeah, Manila,” Wu said. “He was always just a couple of jumps ahead of the law, but when the cops sometimes caught up with him, he always managed to blame it on some other guy. The San Francisco cops hung the name on him, and now he hardly answers to anything else.” Durant looked at Wu. “What’s his real name – Maurice?” “Uh-huh,” Wu said. “Maurice.” “Is he a thief or what?” Ebsworth said. “I suppose he’s stolen a few things in his life,” Wu said. “But mostly he’s a hustler who tries to work a medium-sized con. He’s also a dedicated gossip. That’s what we’ve sometimes used him for. Information.”_ – CHINAMAN’S CHANCE ---
**Author:** ![Raybo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Raybo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raybo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/16 "2000-08-09T21:40:34Z")
and it’s not too bad. [http://www.kilroywashere.org/](http://www.kilroywashere.org/) ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2000, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kilroy-was-here/28236/17 "2000-08-19T10:57:13Z")
I was holding my baby daughter in a sling pouch. She peered over the side, with her nose just over the edge and her fingers on either side of her face. My wife said, “How cute! She looks like Ziggy!” “Ziggy?” I asked. “Yeah, the bald guy sticking his over a wall. Ziggy!” I told her, “That’s a comic strip character. The wall guy is Kilroy.” “No, it’s Ziggy” (ad infinitum) My wife’s high school also collected pull tabs for dialysis. Shows what I have to deal with.